tune a ts1 or get a 250 rb

[roadrunnerian]

which is the best should i go tune my ts1 to get more hp or go for the rb 250 kit any ideas thanks

[Adam_Winstone]

20+ years of tuning work in the UK resulted in the 2 most common tunes being MB's road tune, which machined the bottom off a TS1 cylinder, and Taffspeed's fitting of a 110mm con-rod, both of which allow the transfer timing to be reduced to give a wider power spread and better pulling power through the rev range. Neither of these raise peak BHP but do give a more useable power delivery, subject to correct gearing, on the road. Tuning a TS1 will usually push power higher up the rev range, resulting in higher BHP over a narrow band but less power elsewhere... and a fairly crappy ride! The RB also pushes BHP up the rev range but does not give any additional power lower down the rev range.

The question that you need to ask yourself is whether you are looking to increase BHP because it is commonly top of everyone's 'pub chat' topics, or that you are actually looking to increase useable power throughout the rev range but give the same top speed, subject to correct gearing?

My reason for stating the above is simply because I and many others have gone down the route of tuning standard TS1s, then tuning further, then reverting back to standard TS1s (or other motors) as it is easy to spend lots of money that gives you a nice graph to hang on the wall but an awful motor that needs to be screamed everywhere to stay in a narrow powerband. I also think that you'll get the standard TS1 to do all that you want it to, subject to the right pipe and set-up to suit your riding style, whether it be max rev thrasher or grunty high speed touring. TS1 is a great kit out of the box and tuning will not necessarily deliver the results that you are looking for. Indeed, many of the popular 'grunty' pipes already restrict a TS1s ability to rev and reach the max BHP that the standard porting would otherwise reach. As such, you need to question what your current TS1 configuration is and whether a change of pipe might be a better option than tuning.

Good luck with it,

Adam

PS - All the above is 'IMO' and subject to others seeing it differently.

[mark1]

Work out how much your going to spend tuning your scoot or getting an RB set up then work out how often you will use the extra umph.

A TS1 set up correctly should give you want you want 99.9% of the time.

Also when you use your scoot on ride outs or going to rallies I bet there is someone riding with you on a standard vespa that struggles to get over 55mph which will mean your £4k engine never gets past quarter throttle in third gear. I should know

[Lamaddict]

I've had 2 TS1's and they were alright but just thought I'd go for an RB250 for something different and fast if I need it. I had a Rapido 250 but the damn barrel/piston clearence wasn't right.

[Muppet]

cant really say what they are like to ride but RB 250 just sounds better IMHO, :fb:

muppet,

[drunkmunkey6969]

It all depends on what you want from your ride, how you want it, and how much you want to spend (not only on the tune, but also on additional components).

For example, a budget touring tune on the TS1 (as Adam pointed out) is a formidable opponent to anything else out there....especially when combined with the correct pipe, carb and gearing combo...and in terms of VFM, a touring tune to your existing TS1 setup (eg - keep all else the same and just tour-tune the cylinder) is actually unbeatable in terms of VFM!!! No question.

However......... ........if you want the evil, twisted, addicted, serpent that is (and i confess to have yielded years ago) power and speed, then the (tuning) world is your oyster. And....might i add, not always at the cost of reliability or ride-ability as other may have experienced.

See here for a decent porting job to a TS1 :






That is just one example, but MANY variations are available and can be adapted and tweaked to suit your own requirements.



On the flip-side to the TS1, and not many people are aware that they exist, but the RB250 'Mono Port' is a wonderful item to play with. I (personally) always hated the auxiliary exhaust ports on the RB 225/250 and wished they would produce all 3 RB kits in the same way that they did the RB20 (ie - with a single exhaust port so that i could tune the f@@ker!) lol

And now they do:



This baby can be pushed, pulled, sweet-talked and coerced in all directions!

AF also have some interesting stroke crank webs now at good prices, and i like to split them and drop Jap rods in, which gives even more combos to play with.

So it all depends what you want, how you want it, and what your budget is (said the actress to the bishop!).

Drop me a line or give me a ring if you need more info

Cheers

Dan

[Adam_Winstone]

Nice to hear that they now do a mono port version I think that this will go a long way to resolve some of the issues that the 22 and 25 had with the thin bridges of previous.

I'd like to know more about the webs that they now have? I've got one of their old 62mm stroke web cranks in my Mugello, with MB eccentric pin (about 64.5mm stroke) and do like the thought of getting another decent crank for some more Rowe'speed casings that I've got tucked away.

Adam

[drunkmunkey6969]

Nice to hear that they now do a mono port version I think that this will go a long way to resolve some of the issues that the 22 and 25 had with the thin bridges of previous.

I'd like to know more about the webs that they now have? I've got one of their old 62mm stroke web cranks in my Mugello, with MB eccentric pin (about 64.5mm stroke) and do like the thought of getting another decent crank for some more Rowe'speed casings that I've got tucked away.

Adam

Crank Image/Spec: http://www.afrayspeed.co.uk/index.php?p ... tributeID=


Text from AF website:

THE RICAMBIO 62MM STROKE GP CRANKSHAFT HAS A 107MM CONROD. IT IS FITTED WITH A 14 ROLLER SILVER CAGE BIG END BEARING. THIS CRANKSHAFT IS SUITABLE FOR STANDARD ENGINES AND PERFORMANCE ENGINES FITTED WITH CLUBMAN STYLE EXHAUSTS. iT RUNS A 22MM BIG END PIN MAKING IT EASY TO UPGRADE WITH AN RB ROD KIT.

PRICE £125

So not great as a 'complete unit' off the shelf for tuned motors, but the webs are good.....so I split one of these on Sat for a pal and dropped in a 116 Yam rod and Yam bearing, loctite on the pin, trued up and off he went

[mickdale]

Crank Image/Spec: http://www.afrayspeed.co.uk/index.php?p ... tributeID=


Text from AF website:

THE RICAMBIO 62MM STROKE GP CRANKSHAFT HAS A 107MM CONROD. IT IS FITTED WITH A 14 ROLLER SILVER CAGE BIG END BEARING. THIS CRANKSHAFT IS SUITABLE FOR STANDARD ENGINES AND PERFORMANCE ENGINES FITTED WITH CLUBMAN STYLE EXHAUSTS. iT RUNS A 22MM BIG END PIN MAKING IT EASY TO UPGRADE WITH AN RB ROD KIT.

PRICE £125

So not great as a 'complete unit' off the shelf for tuned motors, but the webs are good.....so I split one of these on Sat for a pal and dropped in a 116 Yam rod and Yam bearing, loctite on the pin, trued up and off he went [/quote]

hello
do you need to groove the casing on these?
what pressure did you need to remove/fit the pin?
cheers
mick

[drunkmunkey6969]

You might not need to groove the casing with the standard rod that AF provide as its slimmer than the Yam one, but a groove will be needed with the Yam rod, we use a 10 Tonne press to build our stuff, and measure interference fit on pin/web. Loctite and/or TIG can be used if required.