Not quite what was expected!!!!

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joeythescooterboy
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Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:22 am

A mate has recently parted with 2300 euros (£1991 @ todays rate,) plus postage for this motor from PEP Parts in Germany.... DIRECT LINK TO SITE

Image

Here's the blurb to go with the motor........

PEP 225 Engine with Vespatronic ignition.

We have made a major purchase and you can now offer this engine at a very reasonable price.
The parts are all new, of course.

The following is installed:

- Malossi 210 piston machined
- PEP 61 Crankshaft Crank
- MMW-1 membrane gland for 30 carburetor. We recommend the Mikuni TMX 30 Carburator.
- RD 350 membrane
- CNC machined cylinder head, adapted to the pistons, 10,8:1 compression is
- Cosa Clutch, reinforced with ring and stronger springs
- Lusso 4-speed, short fourth Gang
- Vespatronic ignition, 1.6 kg weight.
- Original Piaggio 200 Housing

The motor torque is oriented and can offer exhaust systems are driven by all of us.
Carburetor settings or jetting shall be carried out yourself. Depending on the local situation, whether in mountainous or lowland, summer or winter, the carburetor must be adjusted to each case.


I used Google translator to convert the text but I've had an old German mate do a proper translation and it's not very different.

It looks a top bit of kit and promises 25 PS, which is equivalent of 25 BHP, so my chum was chuffed...............

But here's where it falls down...........
ALL of the extra stroke is taken up inside the head, no packer either end, and the exhaust port is untouched so the piston sits 2mm below the exhaust port at BDC.
The casings are left COMPLETELY standard. They have not been matched to the barrel, and even though they've fitted a huge MMW reed block with RD 350 reeds the inlet has not been touched.
If you've followed the link and had a beak at the page then you've seen the "PEP CRANK 61" which is fitted to this motor, it has been heavily machined, and looks very tidy, but still covers the inlet for a good few degrees (not measured how many yet, more than 90, but I will get round to it and see if Sean can do anything with it,) and so, along with the untouched inlet, does not allow the 360 duration required for the reed.

Now I'm not saying he was ripped off, he's got a brand new P2 motor with MMW reed block, RD 350 reeds, Malossi 210, Vespatronic and a tidy 61mm crank but he's still got a long way to go and a lot of work to be done before he get's this motor to work to it's full potential.

All I'll say is before you part with your cash check as to exactly what you're going to get for your money, even if it means asking for the spec in writing, and ASK FOR ADVICE!
Nemo saltat sorbius, nisi infanus est.

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tony
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Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:26 pm

dyno it before you mess with it mate.
Sponsors: Performance Tuning. Ve Uk. Scooter Center Koln. LTH . DRT

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joeythescooterboy
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Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:21 am

Tony, I don't doubt for one minute that it'll run, and it'll probably have a fair bit more to give than a standard P2 but surely the fact that 1) the casing transfers have not been matched at all, 2) the inlet is completely standard even though the MMW reed has been fitted, and 3) the crank still closes off the inlet for a good few degrees is going to have a detrimental effect on the performance.

As far as I'm concerned he's got a standard motor with a few bolt ons, not really what you'd expect from a £2000+ motor by anyone's standards.
Nemo saltat sorbius, nisi infanus est.

fairspares
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Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:36 pm

very nice engine , but absolute waste for money if the inlet and transfers are not ported to match.
Fairspares Lambretta workshop.

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C*NTSPEED
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Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:57 pm

your mate would have been better off slinging a p2 motor down to alan to do his thing tbh :(
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MattsDad
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Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:34 am

Ripped off am afraid, looks like engine put together from bits superseded; MMW1? RD? Cosa? Short 4th Lusso? Feel for him having spent that because it won't push 15 never mind 25.
COCKSPEED TUNING

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joeythescooterboy
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Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:10 am

I'll be honest and say it's his own fault, more money than sense and very little patience.
Just a few weeks previous he'd bought a new Malossi kit, 60mm crank, Malossi reed and a vespatronic, he'd asked me to build him a motor but didn't want to wait so saw the PEP motor on thiefbay and bought it so I've not got much sympathy but I thought I'd post it as a warning to others to check what they're paying for.
Nemo saltat sorbius, nisi infanus est.

pepparts
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Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:34 pm

Hello,

my name is Ben and I am the owner of PEP PARTS in germany.
I am doing my job since 11 years and such a discussion is nothing new to me.

A customer told me about this topic.


The inlet is reworked for the mmw1. Its bigger than the original inlet. It wouldnt make sense not to rework it! I don't know why you didnt see that.
The ports for the cylinder are not reworked thats right. The ports are so small that you don't need to do it. The malossi 210 scavenges through the piston thats why the piston has holes on 2 sides.

The exhaust port is not reworked, too.
The exhaust timing is enough for 25 HP.

You wrote something about the crank that it needs to support free space of 360 degree. Thats totally wrong. The engine sucks from about 150 degree before top dead end to 120 degree after top dead end. So maybe 270 degree totally. This is where the crank gives enough space.

All the things I rework or not were tested on many dyno runs. Tuning is not simple and the best way to verify is the dyno.

I am not sure if you guys know that much about 2-stroke tuning. It seems to me more theoretic knowledge than verified.
So please before you judge about something which you never tested, test it on a dyno first or do it better!

When you dyno please be sure you have a tire pressure of min. 2,5 bar. Take the right jetting for the carb. On the dyno it needs to be poor than on the street. And at last take a good exhaust like the S&S one.

Greetz Ben

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joeythescooterboy
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Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:01 pm

Ben, I'm not slagging you fella, the sum of the parts is roughly what he paid so that's fair enough, it's just that I've never seen a Malossi fitted that hasn't had the casings worked?
The ports for the cylinder are not reworked thats right. The ports are so small that you don't need to do it. The malossi 210 scavenges through the piston thats why the piston has holes on 2 sides.
So why have the transfers in the barrel? Malossi's own literature states, and I quote, "Finally, match the transfer ports on the crankcase with those on the cylinder, using the gasket as a template."
With the crank still fitted it doesn't look as though the inlet has been touched, I'll have a proper look later and if I'm wrong then I apologise.
The main point though is that it does not state on the site that the casing transfers are left standard which is why I'll say once again, it's not what was expected is all.
Nemo saltat sorbius, nisi infanus est.

Dryballs
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Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:32 pm

I had a few kits over the years - both bolt on and then ported.
I struggled to ever notice a difference before and after porting.

I always got much better results by using a long stroke crank and good exhaust.

Dependant on the engine, a lot of the time PX200 engines ran better with standard carbs too!

If the inlet work has been done, and the port timing well looked at with the 61mm crank, I wouldnt be worried about the lack of transfer porting.

Also Malossi's drive better without the barrel being jacked up so I wouldnt worry about the head being recessed

Run it and dyno it before you go playing with anything else!
Then re-dyno it after porting the transfers - I bet you wont gain anything

The better thing to do in my opinion would be to grind away at the piston!

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