Scooterotica

nelson pk wrote:Darrel

What i am saying is that most people concerned who read this thread are wondering how the 30hp super monza can equal or beat the top speed of the 41hp RB over the flying mile.

Im confused now.Ive just skimmed this so shoot me down if required but isnt this what was being questioned with the different parts used that that the SM was more than 30hp? Even so,its the spread of power which is more important.I learnt this years ago when my old iron 185 could pull like it did on tall gearing ( 2 up as well) with an old bigbore to a good speed that TS owners would be happy with but on the dyno it only put out about 14hp.But like a typical 2 stroke,one day it could fly and another day not quite as good.Maybe there is still a lot to be said for that old saying "dyno b@11@x"

Some fair points there Darrell and thanks for the detailed answer and no i'm not saying that sarcastically!

I still believe its an open book on whether the carb and ignition made such a huge power increase but i do have an open mind on this from what you have said and hopefully i will find out for myself or someone will let us know.

Granted, a bike or any race bike may be "jetted" on the brink for the conditions on the day as i'm sure any two stroke racer or competitor does this for the weather conditions etc to achieve max power, for example turning down the power jet on the super monza or having the RB jetted for good power and using the thumb choke to cool it when needed.

Either way, i think both scooters done extremely well to break the 100mph whether it was 104 or 105mph.

soosh wrote:

nelson pk wrote:Darrel

What i am saying is that most people concerned who read this thread are wondering how the 30hp super monza can equal or beat the top speed of the 41hp RB over the flying mile.

Im confused now.Ive just skimmed this so shoot me down if required but isnt this what was being questioned with the different parts used that that the SM was more than 30hp? Even so,its the spread of power which is more important.I learnt this years ago when my old iron 185 could pull like it did on tall gearing ( 2 up as well) with an old bigbore to a good speed that TS owners would be happy with but on the dyno it only put out about 14hp.But like a typical 2 stroke,one day it could fly and another day not quite as good.Maybe there is still a lot to be said for that old saying "dyno b@11@x"

Yes, exactly. It is being questioned that with a bigger carb and programmable ignition did it make more power and was the scoot like this when it went up to Dans dyno and read 30hp.
If it did have the big carb and programmable ignition when it went on Dans dyno, there is our answer, if it didn't how much more power did it make as in my personal opinion a bigger carb and programmable ignition adding say 10hp would be a massive gain on a scooter from just those add ons. I would have thought it would be quite unusual to have got that much extra hp from just those, as remember the barrel and exhaust has had no extra work.
However Darrell did point out that he has seen significant increases on his own high hp tunes with these sort of additions so its an open book until anyone knows the dyno results of a super monza with these additions.

And yes, i believe you are right talking about the spread of power, however i have heard people say that cant be right(30hp or even 35hp as fast as 41hp) and a couple of people posted in earlier threads implying that surely its not possible and yes, you are right in my opinion that conditions on the day do make a difference.

nelson pk wrote: I think what most people on here are trying to understand is how a 30hp motor beat the top speed of a 41hp motor and why that 41hp motor didnt trounce all over the super monza.

And with 30cc less?


There were no major changes to the specification of the Super Monza between the Scooterotica dyno day and the 105.6mph achieved thereafter at the straightliners event, on the second day it was up geared and clutch replaced after it was found to be slipping slightly, this together with turning down the power jet to enable if to rev more is what enabled the Super Monza to reach the speed if did as confirmed by Trevor in the quote above, and posted on the previous Super Monza thread that turned pear shaped over the same issues of doubt.
Is it me of is the bickering getting a bit tedious now

nelson pk wrote:Lets stop the bickering and let results speak for themselves.

Agreed

possibly the SM has better control of heat build up which lets it put down more power for longer but not showing as much peak power as the bigger motors on a inertia Dyno?

soulsurfer wrote:

nelson pk wrote: I think what most people on here are trying to understand is how a 30hp motor beat the top speed of a 41hp motor and why that 41hp motor didnt trounce all over the super monza.

And with 30cc less?


There were no major changes to the specification of the Super Monza between the Scooterotica dyno day and the 105.6mph achieved thereafter at the straightliners event, on the second day it was up geared and clutch replaced after it was found to be slipping slightly, this together with turning down the power jet to enable if to rev more is what enabled the Super Monza to reach the speed if did as confirmed by Trevor in the quote above, and posted on the previous Super Monza thread that turned pear shaped over the same issues of doubt.
Is it me of is the bickering getting a bit tedious now

nelson pk wrote:Lets stop the bickering and let results speak for themselves.

Agreed

Lol! It doesn't bother me either way as I'm not in the market for an RB group6 or a Super Monza but as far as bickering goes,Darrel asked a valid question and got his head bitten off. I do like the bit about no major changes were made. Do you need major changes to get more horses then?

Dunno, it was just answering a question about differences on the dyno compared to the track, I asked the question and that was the answer. Muppet also has a valid point too

hoping someone can help me out??,ive been chasing 100mph for a few years and it does seem you need close to 40 bhp,a light rider and a decent tail wind

(hopefully a slight gradient,lol) to get there,i think im missing something here that a 30bhp motor can actually pull 100mph+,on the day of these 'speed's'

being reached on the sm were there any other 30 bhp sm's there to take a comparison from,think i might ditch my mid 30 bhp highly tuned engine for a

lesser 30 bhp sm to reach the magical figure,dont want to cause any arguments but come on!!!!!!!,100mph at 30 bhp!!!!!

lamy150 wrote:hoping someone can help me out??,ive been chasing 100mph for a few years and it does seem you need close to 40 bhp,a light rider and a decent tail wind

(hopefully a slight gradient,lol) to get there,i think im missing something here that a 30bhp motor can actually pull 100mph+,on the day of these 'speed's'

being reached on the sm were there any other 30 bhp sm's there to take a comparison from,think i might ditch my mid 30 bhp highly tuned engine for a

lesser 30 bhp sm to reach the magical figure,dont want to cause any arguments but come on!!!!!!!,100mph at 30 bhp!!!!!

Over 60 it's all about aerodynamics - machine AND rider.

You could do it on 30 and fail with 50 depending on the above.

Avantone wrote:

lamy150 wrote:hoping someone can help me out??,ive been chasing 100mph for a few years and it does seem you need close to 40 bhp,a light rider and a decent tail wind

(hopefully a slight gradient,lol) to get there,i think im missing something here that a 30bhp motor can actually pull 100mph+,on the day of these 'speed's'

being reached on the sm were there any other 30 bhp sm's there to take a comparison from,think i might ditch my mid 30 bhp highly tuned engine for a

lesser 30 bhp sm to reach the magical figure,dont want to cause any arguments but come on!!!!!!!,100mph at 30 bhp!!!!!

Over 60 it's all about aerodynamics - machine AND rider.

You could do it on 30 and fail with 50 depending on the above.

I seem to recall you did some work on this type of calculation before didn't you? I don't know if the post is still on here.....are you in a position to add any figures or graphs to the post as what you said is quite interesting.