The Super Monza exposed.

[sydduckett]

How much extra does it cost to get Charlie/cam lam to do the build? Ta

[nelson pk]

Only he can tell you that. If you are giving it serious thought you can always ring him. His business is performance tuning in northampton.

[tony]

At present there are two versions IF you buy from CamLam or charley. The differences are minor really but effective. The ultimate version has some modifications done by charley. It's different to what you normally see. It's worth it.
However.. Both are road machines. Jimmy Winters is now on around 6000 miles plus the 6 hour Spanish race and sprinting all this year.
If you want a high end or race version that revs higher than the 8,500 peak power of this kit then talk to Charlie.
I am not sure a 'duper' version will go into production but will be available on request.



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[Darrell Taylor]

The works or ultimate kit is what jimmy runs.
It's not got anything extra apart from the new programmable ignition that was fitted at the shootout.
The motor was optimised before on its standard varitronic. The programmable ignition allows you to stretch the band at either end.


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thought there was mention of a different reed valve and a bigger 34 carb on the shootout bike too

so combined with the programmable ignition what do these 3 upgrades offer as a power gain (once selected and optimised) on top of the quoted 30bhp 20 tq figures (as measured on Dan's dyno)

[tony]

Firstly Darrell I would suggest you read back through the thread. As already stated this motor of Jimmy's run the 34 carb on the high speed run. When you specify that carb it comes with a new manifold and reed. It's all off shelf stuff.
It's 30hp as measured on dans mjp dyno. The same dyno Eric's road gp made 41 and your group 6 made 39 on the same weekend.
You need to ask yourself what's going on with the figures rather than posting silly comments trying to discredit everyone with your 'human error' or ' switchable maps' posts.
That to me shows a naivety which I didn't think you possessed. I expected more. And tbh I was really disappointed in you with these comments.
I would have had much more respect if you had simply said
"Well done lads.. I will beat you next year"
But no . Instead you would rather spit the dummy and try to discredit jimmy, charley and straightliners .
You have the closed eye vision of many tuners I know who think they are no1 and no one could possibly have anything else.
I will tell you this. No one knows everything. There is still so much to learn.
Now in terms if discrediting if you want me to post the real story of events over those two days. I will. But I really didn't want to stoop so low.


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[nelson pk]

Lets not row about it. I have a super monza and i love it and i think everyone who has one does too. I have respect for all the tuners on here and pick up ideas from everyone but i chose to bet my money on the guy who has done other work for me before the super monza was out as i'd seen his work already. You pays your money and makes your choice!
I really like the fact that the whole engine is designed rather than just head, barrel and piston and the components have been tested to handle the power reliably.

On the other hand it is good to see that tuners/racers are more competative than ever!

[Darrell Taylor]

Firstly Darrell I would suggest you read back through the thread. As already stated this motor of Jimmy's run the 34 carb on the high speed run.

firstly Tony they are only questions ,you just asked lots of questions on my facebook page i was happy to answer without throwing the teddy out of the cot. (as always) i see u havent answered any of my questions why be evasive???
I had to ask as its all quite confusing ,im still confused the original blurb had a phbh 30 and a vhs30 as the ultimate option and hadnt seen a 34 offering ? the original blurb had it as 30bhp and 20 torq on those carbs all on charlies dyno that you regularly told us on here reads much lower than for example mine and dans or diablo,s but has subsequently shown a smidge under that at dans dyno shootout so here lies the enigma?
so are your saying for dans dyno shootout it had a 30 carb by the statement (for the high speed run it had the 34)???


When you specify that carb it comes with a new manifold and reed. It's all off shelf stuff.
It's 30hp as measured on dans mjp dyno. The same dyno Eric's road gp made 41 and your group 6 made 39 on the same weekend.
You need to ask yourself what's going on with the figures rather than posting silly comments trying to discredit everyone with your 'human error' or ' switchable maps' posts.
thats why im asking the questions,can you define off the shelf in terms of aftermarket tuning parts
what is going on with the figures tony original blurb 30 on a low reading dyno,actual power on dans supposed high reading dyno a touch under 30 with 3 upgraded parts fitted that should offer a good increase ,cant u see the confusion im sure everyone else can

? silly comments ,ive not made any if youd care to support that statement id be happy to discuss fully ,
does the programmable ignition have the option to be programmed have switchable maps, if so why is it a silly comment
human error i fully stand by that too and there is full supporting evidence for the world to see it is a factual statement theres a timing ticket for 104 that doesnt exist on the master copy,pleae explain for us tony i have photos of many tickets at 104 that i can post side by side with that one if that helps and i have asked the question to the organisers that for 3 wks have failed to respond to so remains unresolved


That to me shows a naivety which I didn't think you possessed. I expected more. And tbh I was really disappointed in you with these comments.
im dissapointed in u tony .i try to work with facts and explainable situations that im prepared to defend fully with statements,ill not dodge or duck an answer to me that displays reasonable doubt through being evasive so please answer the questions instead of heading down a politicians type sidetrack reply

I would have had much more respect if you had simply said
"Well done lads.. I will beat you next year"

beat who at what ,i went to elvington to enter my group 6 to see what it could do ,eric took his road bike to see if he could crack 100mph on it ,i was first to congratulate jimmy on his 100+ run ,i was there tony/you werent so i can comment first hand on what happened that day.

But no . Instead you would rather spit the dummy and try to discredit jimmy, charley and straightliners .

no spitting dummys ,no attempt to discredit ,just asking questions/seeking answers that i dont seem to get replys on


You have the closed eye vision of many tuners I know who think they are no1 and no one could possibly have anything else.
I will tell you this. No one knows everything. There is still so much to learn.
how would you know my inner thoughts ,thats quite the opposite i often belittle my chosen profession and dont consider it as a job of high regard like many others do ,im doing a job just like a bricklayer does his job and like a bricklayer i dont jump up and down telling everyone i lay the best bricks! thats a ridiculous situation


Now in terms if discrediting if you want me to post the real story of events over those two days. I will. But I really didn't want to stoop so low.

please go ahead Tony i have nothing to hide,i answer all questions ,tell me and us all how you could possibly know when you were neither there or have discussed with me what happened,again please do ill be glad to present a full statement of events over the 2 day meeting that can be verified by 3 others who were present and ill b prepared to stand by them ,i am no liar and wont be told otherwise on the 2 day event .

back to my original very simple question

so combined with the programmable ignition what do these 3 upgrades offer as a power gain (once selected and optimised) on top of the quoted 30bhp 20 tq figures



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[nelson pk]

Darrel
I have great respect for you and you know far more than me in the terms of tuning/engine building hands down and congrats on a great years racing.

I think what most people on here are trying to understand is how a 30hp motor beat the top speed of a 41hp motor and why that 41hp motor didnt trounce all over the super monza.
I personally think that even if it was dyno'd (on Dans dyno) with a 30mm VHSH on and without programmable ignition on (maybe someone could clarify this) at just under 30hp, even if you added these on after i dont think you would see an 11hp increase just by a programmable ignition and 34mm carb.....would you?

I have seen the dyno results from the 41hp RB so i do not doubt those and thats not what i am saying.

What i am saying is that most people concerned who read this thread are wondering how the 30hp super monza can equal or beat the top speed of the 41hp RB over the flying mile.

I am aware that high horsepower isnt the be all and end all as your 39hp racer beat the 41hp RB but i am just looking in from a potential buyers/forum members view who is not a tuner and looking for a reliable engine build with good power.

Lets stop the bickering and let results speak for themselves.

[Darrell Taylor]

Darrel
I have great respect for you and you know far more than me in the terms of tuning/engine building hands down and congrats on a great years racing.

no respect required and probably dont know as much as u and many others on here ref lamby engine building as only had a year at it,thanks for the congrats

I think what most people on here are trying to understand is how a 30hp motor beat the top speed of a 41hp motor and why that 41hp motor didnt trounce all over the super monza.
thats if it was 30bhp as per the dyno day ,at the half mile it was progressively leaned out to the extent it read 1400+ on egt and sent the det light crazy ,we heard it from 1/4 mile away all day on every run , if tonys post is correct it had a 34 carb, inlet/reed added for the 1/2 mile? why add these if no gain is to be had ? i think power was up at 36/37 im sure at some point the upgrades will be advertised with the apropriate increased widths and peaks shown or how else will they sell
you asked the question so dont shoot the messenger!
the 41bhp rb put 5 runs in at 104+ with only a few hrs running on tues afternoon before he left for work,he had problems with it in the morning with a couple of light nips as a result of fuel starvation that we cured with a cleaned out fuel tap and a swap of carbs to make sure ,the s monza did lots of runs all day at 100-101 with better conditions too in the aft , a 3mph increase from a 1 tooth rear sprocket change of its best a day earlier of 98, it did 1 run at 105.7mph early doors when it was less windy which at the time we questioned its validity so jimmy made a call to charlie and came back to tell us he had stated it wasnt possible on the gearing/rpm available saying 100 was about its limit,we said try again mate and back it up, so out he went to try again and 100/101 is what it did all day (official results on straightliners facebook page)
i have a sprint simulation software that ive used and dialled in its results to tally within a mph of real world data that shows a 36 bhp requirement to crack 100 on a full bodied it also shows 40+ to crack 105 ill try and get a screenshot up


I personally think that even if it was dyno'd (on Dans dyno) with a 30mm VHSH on and without programmable ignition on (maybe someone could clarify this) at just under 30hp, even if you added these on after i dont think you would see an 11hp increase just by a programmable ignition and 34mm carb.....would you?

well if you go back a few years i put a graph on here of my first ever tune of a straight 225ts1 70mm bore 58 stroke running a 34 carb on a simple analogue ignition ,the ts1 lacks the desirable triple ex port yet it did 38.8bhp on sprint settings so i cant see why an experienced tuner with a better designed s-monza,with fully programmable ignition cant get the same or more ... what do you think?

I have seen the dyno results from the 41hp RB so i do not doubt those and thats not what i am saying.

What i am saying is that most people concerned who read this thread are wondering how the 30hp super monza can equal or beat the top speed of the 41hp RB over the flying mile.
i dont think it did ,and jimmy told us charlie didnt think it did



I am aware that high horsepower isnt the be all and end all as your 39hp racer beat the 41hp RB
the racer with its lighter weight and better aero ran 118.6 but the software said 122 if we had a 22 tooth front this tallied very well again with the software results

but i am just looking in from a potential buyers/forum members view who is not a tuner and looking for a reliable engine build with good power.

im sure the super monza will tick those boxes for many owners already and more to come,the secret to reliability on any engine is knowing when its overheating so a method of monitoring and control devices are essential which is what most appear to have

[soulsurfer]

Aha, conspiracy theories

Straightliners would like to put to bed any doubts about the speeds set on Tuesday the 12th November at Elvington by the three scooters that attended

Firstly let me say that the speeds recorded where over a flying mile and we ran from west to east as we do for all events of this type at Elvington we use the surveyed distance marks that are used for World and British records on this site, The timing equipment used is certified accurate to 10000 of a second for top speed runs we use an 80 foot speed trap at the end of the measured distance this is set up inside the mile with the finish beam on the exact mile mark

As the day in question was an extra day put on at very short notice we did not have our normal printed tickets available to us so we had to revert to hand written ones the system we used was for all speeds to be put on a master sheet and then put on to the timing cards I have the master sheets if you want to look at them

I can guarantee that the speeds some of you are questioning are correct and the rider in question did indeed back up is 105mph run with a 104mph run I know he did it because I went and looked at the timing clock ,,as some of you will know I have an interest in all things two stroke I have ridden them all my racing life and over the two days we where at Elvington I took particular interest in the progress of our scooter riders,, the wind direction on the day varied from a south westerly to a full westerly direction changing back and forth over the day the max wind speed I recoded was 9mph and the average was around 5mph to 6mph in a westerly direction

And finally if you still doubt the speeds I will set up a test day at Elvington at my own cost and you can come and show the world you did do over 100mph on a road scooter, and if you have video of your runs I will submit the timing data to Guinness for ratification Best Regards Trevor Duckworth (Straightliners)