Scooterotica

sydduckett wrote:Two questions

will it go faster?

Will it accelerate quicker?

Okay 3 then......

will it make it less likely to blow up?

That is all

sef

It's all dependant on being set up properly and the rest of the scooter being right.....but:

Yes should do if the ign allows it to rev on
Yes should do if the powerband is broader
And.....no, the scooter it's fitted to should already be set up right and not likely to blow up! Lol

RICSPEED wrote:

TED CRUD wrote:I have a Zeeltronic ignition with a hand held Programmer on order

yes ... this was what I meant ... a new experience hooking your lappy up to scoot with a usb plug

I have gone for the hand held programmer so i can tinker ,rather than my laptop with dodgy battery

A fully mapped ignition requires additional inputs like a TPS (throttle position sensor). Guy Topper has been using TPS sensors for several years and they are available in some carbs but be careful about the required outputs. For example the newer generation of Aprilia RS125 has a TPS built into carb but I'm not 100% sure the output is correct plus, that carb needs quite significant modification and it is only available up to 28mm.

Ultimately, auto ADVANCE and retard ignition, such as the RS125 conversion I make, gives you better starting as the timing starts at circa 12deg BTDC. This is significantly different from some of the plug in ignition units that only retard the ignition (even though they get described as advance and retard), consequently they tick-over at 23deg BTDC or higher which is not good IMO (but this is another subject to do with twisted cranks and flywheel weights).

The advantage of the ignition map allows the user (provided a TPS is added to either the carb or in the headset) to automatically control the ignition timing when accelerating (WOT, typically more advance depending on RPM) or when breaking into corners buy retarding the ignition (even to the point of no ignition) to keep the engine cool/reduce pinking etc. This can be achieved on the RS125 ignitions by adding the Zeeltronic box which has all these features and more, plus the advantage of thumping great big spark energy from generator ignition.

Could a fully mapped ignition deliver 30% increase in power on a back to back tested engine...I highly doubt it. Could it give much more top end power over a normal advance retard ignition...NO. The reason for this is that at WOT if both ignitions are set the same then the ignition curve will be the same.
Could it give a bit more punch through the twisties, yes it probably would. Would it give better reliability for racers who are riding full on, absolutely.

Co-incidentally, once you use a decent generator ignition with a battery and decent CDi you are only a couple of steps away from open loop EFi.

Rich_T wrote:
The advantage of the ignition map allows the user (provided a TPS is added to either the carb or in the headset) to automatically control the ignition timing when accelerating (WOT, typically more advance depending on RPM) or when breaking into corners buy retarding the ignition (even to the point of no ignition) to keep the engine cool/reduce pinking etc. This can be achieved on the RS125 ignitions by adding the Zeeltronic box which has all these features and more, plus the advantage of thumping great big spark energy from generator ignition.

Sounds like heaven to me!

Forgive me for not knowing, but what ignition kits do you sell, what spec are they, how much are and do you have a link to it?

Cheers

rich t has it throtle positn senser and 3D mapable; is CE doin same an fittin a tps to?

drunkmunkey6969 wrote:Forgive me for not knowing, but what ignition kits do you sell, what spec are they, how much are and do you have a link to it?

I developed a conversion for RS125 ignitions which utilises CDi, coil, rectifier, flywheel, windings and pickup. You can find details here http://www.granturismo.pwp.blueyonder.c ... nition.htm

There is a manual down load that tells you everything. Someone posted an ignition map earlier, this type of map can only be achieved with additional data for an ECU to evaluate. The most common form of additional data is a TPS and I'd be 99.99% sure that graph of a fully mappable system will require a TPS. The Zeeltronic units (there is a link to Zeeltronic in manual link I posted earlier) gives you a huge range of functionality to the RS125 conversion. Features such as integrated power-valve (Rave) control, output for electronic power jet, ignition cut during gear changes, TPS inputs etc. You can also buy a Zeeltronic power-valve controller for servo driven power-valves too. There are also other after-market RS CDi's like HPI but I don't rate those as highly as Zeeltronic.

It is also worth mentioning that the RS125 conversion also allows you to use the RS clocks which have functions such as, Tacho, digital clock, lap timer, temp sensor and low oil/fuel lamp (typically a set of clocks is about £20 on Ebay, all that for £20...it's a steal.

The RS125 conversion does not use a TPS as standard because of the additional complexity and cost, naturally everyone in scootering wants it cheaper and and and. The reason the RS125 conversion was developed was to make an incremental stepping stone to EFi. Once you have this sort of DC power and digital ignition it is relatively straight forward to develop a piggy back throttle body, fuel pump and ECU to run on the back of the existing RS ignition. In the EFi system in development, I have elected to put the TPS into the throttle body and found suitable donor parts from Suzuki.

drunkmunkey6969 wrote:

Rich_T wrote:
The advantage of the ignition map allows the user (provided a TPS is added to either the carb or in the headset) to automatically control the ignition timing when accelerating (WOT, typically more advance depending on RPM) or when breaking into corners buy retarding the ignition (even to the point of no ignition) to keep the engine cool/reduce pinking etc. This can be achieved on the RS125 ignitions by adding the Zeeltronic box which has all these features and more, plus the advantage of thumping great big spark energy from generator ignition.

Sounds like heaven to me!

Forgive me for not knowing, but what ignition kits do you sell, what spec are they, how much are and do you have a link to it?

Cheers

I told you a few times mate

Rich_T wrote: It is also worth mentioning that the RS125 conversion also allows you to use the RS clocks which have functions such as, Tacho, digital clock, lap timer, temp sensor and low oil/fuel lamp (typically a set of clocks is about £20 on Ebay, all that for £20...it's a steal. .

ohh ...forgot about that bit ...


oh and rich thanks for dropping the genny mount off with guy

and one last thing Ive been meaning to ask you .. you said don't even think of using prilly starter motor .. runs backwards perhaps ?

RICSPEED wrote: you said don't even think of using prilly starter motor .. runs backwards perhaps ?

No, not because it runs backwards. It is because it uses a bendix style starter which obviously requires to run on a certain PCD from the centre line of the crank (in order to engage with the teeth on the flywheel). Unfortunately, the crank case webs interfere with the space required for the bendix which means you have a hole in your crank case...dear liza. Otherwise it would have been a cracking idea which I got all excited about until I did the CAD model and discovered there was no way around it.

The other mistake is, "I don't need a new loom, I'll unwrap the RS loom cut it up and re-pack it". I was at that point about 5 or 6 years back, it doesn't matter which way you cut it, it can't be done.

a bigger flywheel cog then