The Super Monza exposed.

[nelson pk]

Just to counter some of the insinuations about dynos, that only a step-test brake dyno is any good and it isn't possible to develop anything on an inertia dyno, can I point out a few things:

1. The Super Monza cylinder and exhaust were all developed on an inertia dyno

2. Charlie's championship-winning group 4 Lambretta was developed on an inertia dyno

3. Tony O'Brien's Falc SS90 was originally developed on an inertia dyno (as were all the Falc kits)

If an inertia dyno was no good at all for development then clearly none of these things would have been possible. It is only in the last year or so that Charlie has got an eddy current brake dyno (like PM tuning and Readspeed already had, and we have had for years). It is an improved tool allowing the engine to be tested for longer periods under load, and allowing for more accurate heating, fuelling and checking of timing etc, but the engine is still under load on an inertia dyno. On our inertia dyno the scooter has to accelerate a large-diameter drum that weighs 600kg - that is not a walk in the park.

Inertia dynos are still perfectly good tools capable of all the development listed above if you know how use them and how to interpret the results. Charlie has proved that.

My only point is that people should not get caught up with the "step testing is the only way" hype.

You can dig a hole with a spade or with a mini-digger. It might take longer with a spade but you can still achieve a perfectly acceptable result.

Just because someone has bought a digger it doesn't mean that everyone else has to throw their spades away, or that customers should only accept holes dug by a JCB. You might get a better and cheaper result from someone who is an expert with a shovel than someone who is an idiot with a digger...

Just saying...

I'm not saying inertia is crap and brake dyno is the be all and end all ..........i have clearly stated that already...... but you cannot deny there are big diffences and arguements for and against. Explain why the PT scoots couldn't reach the egt temps on Dans if there are no significant differences.
Even car tuners argue on the fors and against of inertia and brake dynos. Its not the be all and end all after all..... the dyno is but a tool, but its a factor.
You even state above that it is more accurate in certain areas?

[OzOAP]

Our dyno has no problem getting exhaust temp

[soulsurfer]

my question directed to you and soulsurfer is how much did the set up cost? and then after all the shite that you both have thrown at me is will your scooters do 105mph?

Joe, I'm baffled by this one

Firstly, the cost is between me and Charlie, but as Nelson has said, you can get a good idea by going to supermonza.co.uk and clicking the button that brings up a list of most of the parts and their prices.

Next, and the bit that's baffling me; I'm not aware that I've thrown anything at you, shite of otherwise

And lastly; if I changed gearing and carb, then yes I believe mine will do 105mph @ around 8200 rpm, but would I want to, would I feck!

I hope this helps.

[Lamaddict]

I guess they all have to use regular petrol for those events. I knew Jimmy W in the 80's and he always had one of the quickest scooter back then.

[fairspares]

And lastly; if I changed gearing and carb, then yes I believe mine will do 105mph @ around 8200 rpm, but would I want to, would I feck!

.

that would be be running 4.00 final drive gearing , 12.8mph/1000rpm, sorry but that would never happen with a full-bodied lambretta unless you have fitted a bike engine or have at least 45+bhp and 30+ tq.

Now speaking totally unconnected with any of those who ran at the top speed day, i do have a geniune interest in anything to do with scooter sprinting and top speeds, i know from my last 4 years sprinting, looking at the results something is wrong with the 105.6mph run. I do believe that the super monza did 101mph with 32+ bhp and 20+tq and was the first full-bodied lambretta to be officially recorded as doing over 100mph, so well done.
I and other sprinters know when you turn up at an event and start doing runs whether its top speed or 1/4 mile you can play about with jetting/gearing/timing etc it only change times speeds by small amounts , from looking at the official results the super monza did mid to high 90s then next day first run 105.6 mph then a few runs at 100 to 101 mph, the 105.6 is a timing error , if the final gear ratio is shared with us and the rpm reached it can be worked out what the top speed it was capable off . From looking at data ive collected of lambretta and vespa 1/4 mile times and top speeds you would need over 40bhp for a full-bodied 120kg lambretta to acheive 105 mph and thats why Erics did 104mph.

[soulsurfer]

And lastly; if I changed gearing and carb, then yes I believe mine will do 105mph @ around 8200 rpm, but would I want to, would I feck!

.

that would be be running 4.00 final drive gearing , 12.8mph/1000rpm, sorry but that would never happen with a full-bodied lambretta unless you have fitted a bike engine or have at least 45+bhp and 30+ tq.

Now speaking totally unconnected with any of those who ran at the top speed day, i do have a geniune interest in anything to do with scooter sprinting and top speeds, i know from my last 4 years sprinting, looking at the results something is wrong with the 105.6mph run. I do believe that the super monza did 101mph with 32+ bhp and 20+tq and was the first full-bodied lambretta to be officially recorded as doing over 100mph, so well done.
I and other sprinters know when you turn up at an event and start doing runs whether its top speed or 1/4 mile you can play about with jetting/gearing/timing etc it only change times speeds by small amounts , from looking at the official results the super monza did mid to high 90s then next day first run 105.6 mph then a few runs at 100 to 101 mph, the 105.6 is a timing error , if the final gear ratio is shared with us and the rpm reached it can be worked out what the top speed it was capable off . From looking at data ive collected of lambretta and vespa 1/4 mile times and top speeds you would need over 40bhp for a full-bodied 120kg lambretta to acheive 105 mph and thats why Erics did 104mph.

Oh well, back to the drawing board...

[Avantone]

Any photos of these two doing a top speed run irrespective of when and where?

[soulsurfer]

Anyone want to buy a Super Monza, mine's too slow

[corrado]

Would you take a TS1 that rockets to 93mph in part ex Mike?

[soulsurfer]

Would you take a TS1 that rockets to 93mph in part ex Mike?

Of course Martin, but only if it was built by AF

Look, the Super Monza is a f@@king fast road going motor with the power to pull into outside lane motorway traffic at the twist of the wrist at relatively low rpm. This was and is what I love about this motor, I really don't know if mine would do 105mph, and TBH I don't give a damn, the point is that my motor is basically no different to the one that has (arguably) achieved 105.8mph, I'm not bothered whether it will or not, and neither should anybody that's fully interested in owning one, after all it's proved itself in Spain, on the road and on the track, even if it's just for being the first full bodied Lambretta to break 100mph, or whatever.

This thread had been pulled apart in trying to tread down the achievements of the Super Monza with the same questions being asked and the same doubts being cast over and over, this seems to be the case every time the topic's brought up. There is talk of a few attending another straightliners event next year along with a presence in the BSSO I believe, with more owners coming along I'm sure there'll be a plethora itching to show what they can do next year. So whether the aforementioned speed will be achieved again remains to be seen, maybe someone will exceed it, maybe it'll be an RB250, but I doubt it would be believed if it did would it? Anyway, we shall see what happens...