Scooterotica

J1MS wrote:Will you or have you posted a Dyno graph when used with a standard TS1 barrel.

dan

Are the RB versions likley to be out in the next month, noticed on the other thread you would be running a test one soon?

Sef

OK, so i've managed to try the Touring Pipe on two different setups now, and here are the results so far:

First we had Celts GP200 in, its a cast iron piston port, i didnt get into his engine so i dont know what the exact cylinder spec is, but from what he's told me, i believe its Stage 4/5 tune. I dont have my other notes in front of me right now, so Celt can correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe it was running a KRP2 pipe and 30mm Delly.

So we ran it up on the dyno to get a base reading, and i've got to say....in standard trim, the results were pretty good:17.5 bhp and 12.8ft-lbs (blue lines). Then we tried the Adspeed pipe and it did what he said it would do.....it bumped up the torque and stuffed it lower down the rev range, although it did knock a couple of bhp of peak power and altered the delivery curve somewhat: 15.4 bhp and 15 ft-lbs (red lines). I've got to say, with regard to this alteration of power delivery, i prefered the original (blue lines) for my style of riding, and didnt like the way the bhp dropped and flattened off after peak power was made.....the power curve looks weird to me, but someone wishing to 'de-rev' and up-gear may like it.

Below: Comparison of both pipes, bhp & ft-lbs


Below: just the bhp comparison (KRP2 17.5 vs Ads 15.4)


Below: Just the ft-lbs comparison (KRP2 12.8 vs Ads 15)


Image of actual pipes:





So having done that test, we then got a TS1 through the door, standard trim, 35mmTMX carb, JL3 pipe......and the results were much better. This is what i consider to be the 'it does what it says on the tin' graph! By that, i mean that Ads said that on a 'fruity' machine (say a TS1 or RB etc) where somemone wants to keep peak BHP, increase ft-lbs, bring both peaks lower down the rev range and up gear......this is the best application for this exhaust. Original trim it was 20 bhp & 15.6 ft-lbs (blue lines) but with the Adspeed pipe it was 20bhp & 16.83 ft-lbs. The difference being this time, that peak bhp held, ft-lbs increased, but more importantly the shape of the graph improved. Both bhp & ft-lbs were delivered earlier, and both managed to hang on in a very similar manner to the JL3. So TS1225, JL3 vs Adspeed:

Below: Comparison of both pipes, BHP & ft-lbs


Below: Just BHP comparisons (JL3 20 vs Ads 20)


Below: Just ft-lbs comparisons: (JL3 15.6 vs Ads 16.8)


So all in all, from this fairly limited test i've done, i'd say that a machine in a low state of tune will not benefit from this pipe nearly as much as a cylinder which is in a higher state of tune. And if you have such an engine and your goal is to re-gear for a more touring type of ride rather than a revvy-racer type of ride, this pipe should certainly be considered. Its a bit cheaper than a JL3 and seems to give better touring capabilities on tuned engines.

Also....from an aesthetics perspective, it looks good, it also sound fit when it revs up, the rear can bracket/support is good quality, and i did notice that it seemed to run cooler than the JL or KRP....by that i mean it was litterally cooler to the touch, after dynoing i could whip the Adspeed pipe off fairly quickly, but had a to wait a while for the other two to cool down. I also noted that the Adspeed pipe leaned up both engines and so to get out on the road with these pipes you would want to richen up the jetting.

If i get chance to try any other different engines before Ads comes to pick the pipe back up, then i will do so, and i believe he is also dropping off the new 'road/race' version for me to try too.....which im keen to compare on both a standard TS1 and my group 6 TS1 also!!

Adam I think your right about the rubbers on the Taffy, as they come they allow a little Too much movement and once they wear out, the exhaust does move around quite a bit.

I shortened the steel bushes that sit inside the rubber on mine, the pipe sits a little more solid on the mountings but they still seem to be ok (not causing any cracking) and last far longer.

Ive bought a few spare rubbers, steels and springs (in the last eleven years) for the Taffy, and they were different length steels and springs to the first batch which only laser about 2000 miles, they now seem to last much longer, well over 5000 miles on the last set.

Dan, are any of these bikes fitted with egt? It would be interesting to see what the exhaust gases are doing, particularly as you say the Ads felt cooler and requires richening, as this would indicate a lower running temp for decent performance and also indicate the part played by the exhaust in the temperature of the running motor.

Cheers for the right up Dan......

If you imagine this pipe is kinda targeted at the rally going geezer I'd like to think the results for the Stg4 barrel are quite promising. If you look at the actual rev range in use say 3-7k then I'd like to think the ADS out performs the JL2 and if you regularly rode two up then theres only one winner. Gotta say from what I know about the JL2 its quite a revvy little fella so maybe a little chalk and cheese......

Standard TS1 results pretty much as we expected really.........

From experience (road and dyno)the ADS3 will not rev as high as shown so just trying to get my head round the later halves of the graphs. I only mention this as the graphs show them revving in excess of 9k and want to point out to potential purchasers that it ain't gonna happen.......Dan and I are just scratchin our heads with this at the mo..........

Hopefully Dan can continue testing and we can have a Race version to him before long

Cheers again Dan.

drunkmunkey6969 wrote: First we had Celts GP200 in, its a cast iron piston port, i didnt get into his engine so i dont know what the exact cylinder spec is, but from what he's told me, i believe its Stage 4/5 tune. I dont have my other notes in front of me right now, so Celt can correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe it was running a KRP2 pipe and 30mm Delly.

All correct except carb is a 32mm Dellorto

Gearing is Italian LI150 with std 46t crownwheel and 15t front sprocket.

Very interesting. I think one of the most surprising things here is the two photos above of the exhausts side by side. They look so radically different. The volume of ADS must be twice that of the KRP2, yet the results are not hugely different. It really just demonstrates the complexity of designing an exhaust.

I have had my run-ins with Adam in the past, but I really take my hat off to the guy for the commitment to development of this exhaust. It takes balls to tackle a project like this. Suddenly, people are all talking about the new Adspeed/chiselspeed exhaust.

Good luck.

Knowledge wrote: I have had my run-ins with Adam in the past, but I really take my hat off to the guy for the commitment to development of this exhaust. It takes balls to tackle a project like this. Suddenly, people are all talking about the new Adspeed/chiselspeed exhaust.

Good luck.

Cheers for that Martin. Hopefully more results coming up its just finding time!!

PS - Dan could it be something to do with the ADS been plain steel and the JL2 being chromed that makes the ADS seem cooler.....just a thought?

Adspeed wrote:PS - Dan could it be something to do with the ADS been plain steel and the JL2 being chromed that makes the ADS seem cooler.....just a thought?

Yes, quite possibly.

I also found that your pipe ran noticibly leaner when bolted straight on, compared to 2 or 3 others we've compared it against.....i'm suspecting this is what gave it the abilty to rev on with our dyno....because as i richen the carb up, the pipe starts cutting out noticably earlier. Maybe an answer to that mystery, not sure?

Also....completed a touring tune for a customer recently, using the ADS pipe, he's very happy with engine performance....25% power increase in the mid-range, and peak bhp/ft-lbs both increased in value and moved 1000rpm down the rev range.........impressive stuff! Re-geared him from his original (revvy) 5.22 to a nicer 4.8. I'll post graphs soon!