Super Monza online at LTH!

[tony]

Fan cowls,Head cowls? Watercooling?

This is a Charley Edmonds designed kit and therefore everything is considered and tested.. its been designed to work with as much current stuff as possible. It therefore has been designed to run with standard cowls. This has been tested with these cowls and checked to see if the power could be made without new ones. Charely's approach isnt to go balls out and watch something break.. his approach is reliabilty with the power. It can be done. He will of course include a service schedule with the instructions.

LC-If it was LC how much would that cost? Already people are worried about the price.. but LC? Big money.
No this is a TOUR kit..this is not a race kit. Its been developed to keep it as much Lambretta as possible.. you will not be welding crankcases with this kit. There is no need.

Re the two stud manifold. It would be cast of the same material as the barrel I expect knowing Charley's attention to detail.. I can check on that..There are many types of motor that use a similar two stud fixing,the KR1S for example. Even the Prange does alright with a NFK type reed manifold on its casing retained by two studs.. and what about exhaust flanges ? All two stud ,and if the parts are right.. are flat.. torqued correctly you have no issues.

[GP Kevo]

From LTH: The kit was designed in cooperation with the BSSO champion Charly Edmonds and has more than 30hp according to the manufacturer. This is only possible with the special designed exhaust. As the exhaust flange points to the back the exhaust has to specially made for the Supermonza. The inlet manifold has a 6-plate reed valve that feed 2 big inlet ports and 2 additional Boysen port that point directly into the transfers. The cylinder gets bolted on the casing with 2 stud and 2 special screw at the cylinder bottom, so it leaves more space for the exhaust port which has a 3-port layout.

The piston is a very good italian made cast one with 2 good rings that can withstand wider exhaust ports than normal rings you have in the TS-1.

Fits only 200cc casings.

capacity: 225cc

bore: 70mm

power: 30hp (estimated)

So, is that 30 hp with the Super Monza exhaust shown on the LTH site? At what revs does it make this power? How does it compare to a 30 hp tuned TS1 or RB 225 or 34 hp RB250?

With the intake turned 90º from the RB's it leaves more room for a large manifold and still clears the frame.

[tony]

Just to point out again.. all kits from cam-lam will be spec checked by Charley himself. And corrected if required to his original spec.. not something that has been offered before.
This is a tour kit.. I've never seen a real 30hp ts1.. even more so ..i've never seen a 34hp rb!! These are rare beasts eh.. and i reckon with rb port area even if you stroke to whatever cc it it will need at least 10,000 with a decent pipe.
I will say this is a fresh approach and will not be revving anywhere near 10k! Its power band will not resemble mount everest!

[cezeta]

so tony......when?

and yes i realise its hard work ect....thats why i dont make them but when is it likely to be ready?

[GP Kevo]

I don't think Taffspeeds RB 250s rev anywhere near 10,000 RPM as they are making peak power around 8,500 RPM and torque at 20 ft lbs. I wouldn't be so quick to disparage others' work in this area (of making fast but tourable engines). I'm sure Tino and Charly's kit is good if it does what they say it does (30 bhp reliably i.e. no thermal issues) at the right price they'll be onto a winner.

My friend here in Warsaw has a Taffspeed built RB 25 that dynoed at 34 bhp / 20 ft lbs torque on NK touring exhaust and 32 mm Delorto. He loves the engine, says it pulls like a train in all gears with no need to change up and down to keep it in the power band and had it up to 155 kph (riding prone / checked against car speedo) claimed there was more but it sounds like what claimed power / torque can do with correct gearing for the engine / exhaust. That in a full frame Series 3.

There are a few RB 25's nudging 34 bhp in this thread:
http://forums.ilambretta.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8939

My issues with the RB kits is Airsal's build quality of the cylinders and plating problems that some have reported here and on LCGB forums. I've been waiting for the Super Monza to debut but I'm trying to learn about all the kits so as to make an informed decision when it's time for a new engine build to replace my TS1 (which is still going strong )

[tony]

Nick.. soon... thats all i can say.. barrel is good.. few minor details to sort. But buy from cam lam.

Kev.. where did I mention anyone? I'm not knocking anyone...Sorry pal.. what i said was I have not seen any ts1's make 30 hp or an rb make 34. Not reliably or with a good spread of power. So post your graphs people from a realisic dyno? Hp is a nonsense anyway... its all about the torque and spread of torque.. its not about pub talk 30 hp which actually only occurs over 200 rpm. Thats a nonsense.
Two stroke tuning is a science.. its not some magic art. A certain size port can only deliver so much with a certain force on it with a given compression and ignition advance.To get a ts1 to deliver 30 hp you would need at least 10k and the power band will be narrow cos to get the flow revs are required. This is not the brief with this new kit.

[Lamaddict]

I thought this 'Charlie Edmunds' kit was suppose to be sold as a complete kit ie with a carb, ignition and exhaust recommendations. I find Cam Lam a bit of a mystery as some of their kit doesn't seem work well IMO and Charlie Edmunds undoubtably leads on the race track.

[Stampede]

To get a ts1 to deliver 30 hp you would need at least 10k and the power band will be narrow cos to get the flow revs are required. This is not the brief with this new kit.

Not really....

DynoGraph from PipeDesign

[shocky]

To get a ts1 to deliver 30 hp you would need at least 10k and the power band will be narrow cos to get the flow revs are required. This is not the brief with this new kit.

Not really....

DynoGraph from PipeDesign

:ninja:

[GP Kevo]

Tony, you are making assumptions about other kits that are false. There are 30 hp TS1's (tuned or with special exhaust) that make peak power well under 10,000 RPMs as Stampede provided a link from German firm Pipedesign. I'd like to see that dyno graph next to a Super Monza dyno chart.

I think we might find what's lacking from the TS1, though, is torque when compared to an RB 250 and most likely when compared to the Super Monza. When I talked to Ian Frankland 2 years ago about the RB 25 engines he was about to build, he had emphatically stated that they would be touring engines, not high revving race engines. He also stated at the time that they might require better cooling, possibly water cooling to the cylinder head, to deal with thermal issues when running the engine hard over long distances. It looks like the Super Monza may be a cooler running solution and if this is the case it should sell very well.

LTH are offering the kit as parts but in UK it will be sold only as a complete kit vetted by Charlie Edmonds? What exactly will he do with the kits? Check that the ports are at the correct position? Is there that much variation in the production of these cylinders? Jet the carb? Check parts for defects? What's to stop people buying from LTH and experimenting (at least with different carburettors) with it? SuperMonza Kit €725 SuperMonza pipe €670+ varitronic €342 + 30 mm Delorto PHBH carb €85 = €1822 or £1545 (less shipping). That could be much less if a buyer already has an ignition and carburettor he wants to use.

I forgot to ask if this kit is only for 107 mm conrod and 58 stroke crankshaft? Is there a recommended crank / rod combination to use with the Super Monza?

Thank you for your responses and information.