RB22 kit.....first 1000 miles.....

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drunkmunkey6969
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Thought this might be of interest:

Customer has RB22 kit, he's actually owned the kit for nearly 2 yrs (kit no 113) but between waiting for it to be built, running problems and one thing and another, its only covered just over a thousand miles.

With the scooter being a bit smokey, and the customer having various carb set-up problems, he brought it into us for a dyno session. Straight away on the dyno we could see the amount of smoke belowing from the exhaust.....but the A/F meter was excessivly lean. Also, there was a knock/rattle from within the engine, and the power curve was not nice at all. Zero low down power, until finally when the engine got spinning at high revs it had the power delivery of an ON/OFF switch.......nothing, nothing, nothing...FULL POWER....nothing.

So we peeled it off the dyno and advised the customer that further investigation was needed, and that a dyno session could not be completed. We offerd the choice of pickup and let his local shop look into it, or we would fit it into our work load if he wanted....so he took up our offer, we stripped it, and here's what we found:

Uneven ring wear:
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5mm ring gap!!
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Nikasil lining destroyed from TDC to BDC:
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Original Nikasil lining below BDC still intact as you would expect:
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Worn, worn, worn....
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So we contacted the scooter owner with the bad news and he's coming in next week to have a look for himself.

Now obviously AF are not obliged to do anything about this, if for no other reason than the kit is 2yrs old....but the scoot owner placed a tentative call to AF and i have been told that they were very good about the whole thing. They've asked if we will complete the strip-down to crank, and send crank, piston, cylinder & head over to them for inspection.....at which point they will see what they can do to make amends. The scoot owner is not sure what the offer will be, but at this stage is confident that due to AF's initial understanding response on the phone, that they will try to sort something out for him, whatever that may be, in order to be as helpful as they can. So we will wait and see how this one ends, but i thought that in the meantime, you guys might like to see the cylinder.

On a distantly related thread.....we have another RB22 kit in from a forum member that seized his kit, and we are lined up to get some welded and enlarged transfer 200 casings in from another pal......so using up some of our own other spare bits, all we need is a BIG crank and a nice re-bore on the cylinder, and we maybe looking at building our very own RB260 engine to play with....just for fun. So whilst there may have been some issues on the earely RB kits (that do seem to be getting addressed as they go along) .....they are still powerfull kits and certainly fun to play with! And who knows, if im having a good day........i might even post a graph up when its done! ;)
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Knowledge
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This is not the first time I have seen excessive wear on early RB22 engines.

When a local dealer rang Ben and explained what they had found, Ben's first question was "has it a stainless steel tank?". The answer was "Yes".

A rather curious question to ask, but check out the thread elsewhere on this forum.
Martin
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drunkmunkey6969
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Knowledge wrote:This is not the first time I have seen excessive wear on early RB22 engines.
Yup.

And to be fair....we've just seen something very similar on an Imola, although not this excessive, and it did have more miles on it.

I'll post pics when i get chance.
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monkey boy
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Dunno how relevant it is but a mate recently had just under 600 miles on a tuned cast iron barrel,not sure of the tunner or the origin of the barrel,anyway started running badly and when it was checked out it was found to have a 2mm ring gap.
Stainless tank involved!
AL
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leigh
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was this running the original asso piston. Are they 1.5mm rings

Leigh
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22/2
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As an RB owner myself, I have an early 250 (6 port) which I absolutely love. It's been together for 15 months done about 2K, not had it apart yet - never had a need to, took it sprinting on the week end and run a PB of 15.84 so it is still full of power.

You may remember one early 225 on the LCGB site where the rings wore excessively to the exhaust side (photos similar to above) the doom merchants loved it - any excuse, R&D blah, blah, blah, well a mate of mine has a TS1 (well proven 20 years of development blah, blah, blah again) and his rings wore in exactly the same way, it was an RB piston (as thats all you can get) so maybe the issue is purely with rings not the kit as a whole.

The reason he took it apart was for a twisted crank, phoned AF (as it was their crank), exactly the same response, sent the parts back, and within a week had a rebuilt crank and a new set rings (FOC)...never heard of that before!!! well thats twice in one thread.

Rich
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red
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I posted a picture of my RB rings that wore excessivley on one side after approx 700 miles( can't find the topic though)

Took it back to AF and yes was asked about stainless tank,but as I had no wear on either piston or barrel that was dismissed.

Credit where credit is due Ben and Ray kept the engine and did a total strip down to check the build(Built by Jerome at Readspeed as a 230)nothing untowards found so new rings supplied and engine rebuilt FOC! :D
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sean brady scooters
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leigh wrote:was this running the original asso piston. Are they 1.5mm rings

Leigh
Yes.
Sean Brady Scooters - 01765 690 698
davidblythe
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The 22RB seems to wear the rings on the exhaust bridge on the carb side, using an endoscope, I can see the wear progressively getting worse on my RB, which does far less work than my TS1 which has miminal wear

Saw a current GP6 watercooled barrell that had a similiar layout to the 22RB but with the bridges being at least 8mm thick compared to 3 to 4mm on the RB,

lack of cooling with thin bridges and they will act like a grindstone on those rings,

the barrell also ran a horizontal bridge on the inlet and showed miminal wear, even thou it was running quite a few boost ports
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leigh
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sean brady scooters wrote:
leigh wrote:was this running the original asso piston. Are they 1.5mm rings

Leigh
Yes.

Only took my RB top end of last month done 4000 miles on the 1.5mm rings. Kit number 52 i work over seas so it doesnt get the mileage some would but must say that the rings had worn to a 3 mm gap. Also think RnB did a thread on hear showing the overlap of the exhaust port and cutaways on side of piston. You could see where gasses had been passing round the side of the piston.

Barrel did have a little damage around the exhaust port but put this down to a gasket blowing at full chat on the local dual carriage way not long after i put it together.

Leigh
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