We looked at some more levers fitted to ScootRS set-ups yesterday. Another one had a lever marked 21D, but it was a black lever, the typeface and markings were different and it looked fine.
You've got to say that the pic of the lever Bilko posted with the three casting flaws on the top looks just the same batch as Sef's. Personally I'd take it out and if the hole is off-centre then I'd throw it in the trash and get a better one just to be safe.
It would be nice to know how long ScootRS have been supplying from this manufacturer/batch.
ScootRS part nearly killed me!
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Speed Demon
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Get to SULK
cezeta wrote:here are some alternative levers for those that want to upgrade
cnc machine nice ones with reach adjustment.
http://tyga-performance.com/site/index. ... =72_78_104
those levers look very very good quality and have been properly made with care and attention
at that price too i would not hesitate to get those suspect rubbish versions off and these
fitted.
hi well i would personally in this climate (exchange rate etc) be looking to a full uk manufacturer/supplier, like for example lambretta innovations.Lam46 wrote:I have been watching this with personal interest as (sorry to go off the subject) its my 40th birthday coming up at the end of the month and the Mrs is buying me a front disc for my scoot......And yes you`ve guessed ,my first port of call was to be ScootRS and even though a lever might never have done that before and could well be a rogue part that slipped the net my thoughts are...I might just wait here and see what happens..Thats just how people think.
excellent kit with brilliant feedback and most of all ecellent customer service which in my opion is worth its weight in gold.
they did have a bearing problem i believe? but a post was out on all forums and in magazines fully sorting all the problem with no cost or hassle to the purchasers. excellent service
there are other suppliers manufacturers aswell i believe of hydraulic front brakes systems
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Nic
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Randall, I stand corrected in terms of the tens of thousands of these brake levers you say are used across the Far East, as well as Lambretta scooters. But Sticky's point still applies: judging by the stamps on these levers, it seems possible that there are several manufacturers of them. If so, it is quite likely that at least one batch has not been made well, maybe even two batches judging by Bilko's lever.
I take on board what you say about your guarantees. My point is that if this accident had happened and the part concerned was sold by a UK dealer, he or she would quite possibly be held legally liable for the damage, at least in part - not just to the lever itself (which seems to be YOUR main concern) but damage to the scooter, the scooterist and so on.
As I say, I'm not a lawyer but deal with consumer law on a reasonably regular basis. The issue in terms of liability would be that of what the likelihood of failure was, whether the dealer knew in advance that such a part might fail, whether the dealer took adequate steps in advance to mitigate that potential failure (for example, by giving ample warnings that the product could only be used on show bikes...). Generally, a dealer selling parts that are safety-critical would be expected to take out product liability insurance in the event of just such a claim, as would a manufacturer - by definition.
Ironically, if you supply a UK dealer and that part is bought from them, there is a legal recourse for the buyer. The dealer and liability insurer would then try to chase you up as one of the links in the chain that led to the part causing injury and damage. Whether they succeeded or otherwise would not matter to the consumer, for whom the route to compensation (fairly or unfairly) would then be focussed on the UK dealer alone.
What effectively seems to be the case here is that if a consumer buys direct from you, either you do the right thing and take responsibility for damage caused by a part supplied by your firm or the buyer is placed in an impossible situation of trying to obtain legal redress against a Vietnamese company.
You make the point about defective pistons and so on. But generaly, if a piston goes in my bike, I can usually trace it to an issue that was unrelated to the piston itself. And although we joke about some dealers always telling people that a parts failure was the "first" they knew about it, if I convince the dealer that the failure was genuinely his fault and not because I fu*ked up, I always receive compensation.
As I said before, I think you should do the right thing - and also make the necessary checks to ensure that the parts you supply are not part of a faulty batch or a dodgy manufacturer. If there is any doubt in your mind, the parts should be withdrawn from sale and you should take appropriate action to reassure buyers of the steps you have taken to protect them, including changing to a different supplier if necessary.
At the end of the day, buying from the Far East in general and ScooRS in particular works on trust: we need to be sure that "cheap" means good quality EVERY TIME, particularly for safety-critical parts.
I sincerely hope you take this message on board: I know you've had a rough and sometimes unfair ride from critics on some websites, but what is striking about UK audiences in general and this forum in particular is that by and large its members seem to be more understanding of dealers' dillemmas, more tolerant and prepared to listen if things are not perfect, more prepared to fettle and bodge if things don't fit perfectly, more willing to give praise when a part is a genuine improvement in safety terms, more appreciative of the value-for-money we get from ScootRS parts and quite happy to engage in adult and abuse-free discussions with dealers including yourself.
But if one of us is injured or killed, or his scooter suffers serious damage because one of your parts is defective and you did nothing to sort the matter out (and failed to communicate properly with your audience), that equation changes.
I take on board what you say about your guarantees. My point is that if this accident had happened and the part concerned was sold by a UK dealer, he or she would quite possibly be held legally liable for the damage, at least in part - not just to the lever itself (which seems to be YOUR main concern) but damage to the scooter, the scooterist and so on.
As I say, I'm not a lawyer but deal with consumer law on a reasonably regular basis. The issue in terms of liability would be that of what the likelihood of failure was, whether the dealer knew in advance that such a part might fail, whether the dealer took adequate steps in advance to mitigate that potential failure (for example, by giving ample warnings that the product could only be used on show bikes...). Generally, a dealer selling parts that are safety-critical would be expected to take out product liability insurance in the event of just such a claim, as would a manufacturer - by definition.
Ironically, if you supply a UK dealer and that part is bought from them, there is a legal recourse for the buyer. The dealer and liability insurer would then try to chase you up as one of the links in the chain that led to the part causing injury and damage. Whether they succeeded or otherwise would not matter to the consumer, for whom the route to compensation (fairly or unfairly) would then be focussed on the UK dealer alone.
What effectively seems to be the case here is that if a consumer buys direct from you, either you do the right thing and take responsibility for damage caused by a part supplied by your firm or the buyer is placed in an impossible situation of trying to obtain legal redress against a Vietnamese company.
You make the point about defective pistons and so on. But generaly, if a piston goes in my bike, I can usually trace it to an issue that was unrelated to the piston itself. And although we joke about some dealers always telling people that a parts failure was the "first" they knew about it, if I convince the dealer that the failure was genuinely his fault and not because I fu*ked up, I always receive compensation.
As I said before, I think you should do the right thing - and also make the necessary checks to ensure that the parts you supply are not part of a faulty batch or a dodgy manufacturer. If there is any doubt in your mind, the parts should be withdrawn from sale and you should take appropriate action to reassure buyers of the steps you have taken to protect them, including changing to a different supplier if necessary.
At the end of the day, buying from the Far East in general and ScooRS in particular works on trust: we need to be sure that "cheap" means good quality EVERY TIME, particularly for safety-critical parts.
I sincerely hope you take this message on board: I know you've had a rough and sometimes unfair ride from critics on some websites, but what is striking about UK audiences in general and this forum in particular is that by and large its members seem to be more understanding of dealers' dillemmas, more tolerant and prepared to listen if things are not perfect, more prepared to fettle and bodge if things don't fit perfectly, more willing to give praise when a part is a genuine improvement in safety terms, more appreciative of the value-for-money we get from ScootRS parts and quite happy to engage in adult and abuse-free discussions with dealers including yourself.
But if one of us is injured or killed, or his scooter suffers serious damage because one of your parts is defective and you did nothing to sort the matter out (and failed to communicate properly with your audience), that equation changes.
Last edited by Nic on Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sydduckett
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Nic, well said. Your post says it far better than my ones. I have sent a letter to scootering re this and hope to hear back from them shortly.
Sefton
Sefton
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byron
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sounds like the one on mine, bought from ScootRS direct about 2½ years ago.Speed Demon wrote: Another one had a lever marked 21D, but it was a black lever, the typeface and markings were different and it looked fine.
Wow 8 pages long and all we still have is a broken lever, I wonder what the next logical step should be?CANbus wrote:. I would strongly recommend that these parts be submitted for analysis to a reputable metallurgical consultant.
I’m certain they could narrow down the “root†cause of the failure, was it a catastrophic failure or did it fatigue overtime? Was it corrosion related or were there embedded stress points (see example) within the material from new etc or indeed was poor manufacturing a likly contributor?
I would also personally consider submitting my clutch lever as a comparison of the material……given the way I ride I think I would be correct in saying my clutch lever sees more force (moments about the pivot point) and is used more often than my RS disc…which I’m more than happy with by the way.
11111111 = 0xFF
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jonny snatchsniffer
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trouble is in the far east is they like to copy everything, and no matter what is stamped on the lever it could still be a copy of a copy of a copy, id be surprised if the nissins were actually nissins and not knocked off copys marked accordingly.
you get what you pay for, dont take the chance, its ok for cowls, mudguards and all that but brakes ?
you get what you pay for, dont take the chance, its ok for cowls, mudguards and all that but brakes ?
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Bilko
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Thanks for the reply.Speed Demon wrote:We looked at some more levers fitted to ScootRS set-ups yesterday. Another one had a lever marked 21D, but it was a black lever, the typeface and markings were different and it looked fine.
You've got to say that the pic of the lever Bilko posted with the three casting flaws on the top looks just the same batch as Sef's. Personally I'd take it out and if the hole is off-centre then I'd throw it in the trash and get a better one just to be safe.
It would be nice to know how long ScootRS have been supplying from this manufacturer/batch.
I never really paid any attention to the lever until this post appeared. If those levers on the link fit I'll send off for one. (Will they)?
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sydduckett
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Yeah, those levers look the dogs doo-dahs. When do we find out if they will fit?
sef
sef