Rally 200 Clutch issues

[storkfoot]

Please bear with me. I'm well used to setting up Lammy clutches and knowing how temperamental they can be when trying to mix and match parts. However, this is the first time I've had a go at a Vespa clutch.

This is an original standard Rally that's been standing for over 30 years. The original clutch had rusted and fused together. Cleaned it all up and fitted new springs, plates and steels. Put it in late this afternoon.

Despite trying many different cable tensions, I can't get it to work. I pull in the clutch and put it into first(or second) and it snatches really badly and stalls. Well it stalled most of the times except for two occasions when it wheelied and hurled me down the path

I soaked the plates for a week and there is new oil in the gearbox. I did not replace the bronze bush or the dished washer that the bush engages with.

Is there an ideal number of millimetres plate separation? Should there be a bit of slack at the lever? What else do I need to check or change?

Thanks in advance.

[bazman]

First thing what make parts did you use , lined up the hole in the basket to the metals? Should really have replaced the bronze bush and washer. Also could be the primary drive bearings shot and causing too much play. Vespa clutches are so different to lammy ones and do bite harshly at times if not used to them. Push rod ok in clutch cover?

[Jack221]

If you ever want to sell it ask here first!

To test the clutch cable tension is roughtly right. Pull the clutch lever in and press the kickstart. Watch the flywheel and it should not try to move and the kickstart will press down easily. There should be very slight lever slack when it is let out. And when warmed up with the clutch in it should tick over in gear.

There are many reasons the clutch will grab and most are easy to spot when you take the clutch apart. The brass bush in the clutch being really slack is the main reason but the one that most people overlook is the big fat metal thrust washer under the clutch on the crankshaft. This doesnt need to be worn so much and the clutch will wobble when pulled in and make it grab. If you can see wear on it, change it!

The other point is the clutch nut. If you are new to Vespas and with the castleated nut, its a two man job. Make sure its tight! Really tight! If it comes loose it can ruin your crank.

[gaz_powell]

some good info already

as baz said what components used - was it a complete kit ? Surflex, Adige individual parts ?

take the clutch out and strip it - take out the cups and springs and check that the plates all drop in without any resistance. if there is you may need to file the tangs.

reassemble and ensure the backplate is lined up with the basket (there is a small hole in each one)

make sure all the springs are lined up correctly in the cups and back plate (just like a bretta - you may need to poke them with a screwdriver.

as said use a new spacer, pushplate and plunger

I would fit a cosa type flange nut and wavy washer instead of the castlenut/basket washer - unfortunately the quality of some of the nut and the tools is so poor that they will cause you hassle. if you decide on the castle nut buy the SIP one which is not made of cheese !

make sure the arm on the clutch cover is all working free

a standard clutch on a vespa is very easy to set up as long as the components are all working correctly

best of luck

gaz

ps nice find a yellow rally

[storkfoot]

First thing what make parts did you use , lined up the hole in the basket to the metals? Should really have replaced the bronze bush and washer. Also could be the primary drive bearings shot and causing too much play. Vespa clutches are so different to lammy ones and do bite harshly at times if not used to them. Push rod ok in clutch cover?

Bought a clutch kit from Allstyles. Make?

Which hole in basket to what metals (I'm staring at Haynes p.18 now). [edit: just seen Gaz's reply. Ta] To try and clarify (I think) I didn't separate the clutch drive, and so, did not renew the bush. There did not appear to be any slop in it. However, looking again at the diagram, I can see that I have done something wrong. I have put the spacer washer (part 32 on that Haynes page) on the other side of the cog that engages with the gearbox. Therefore, I have in effect two spacer washers fitted.

I remember the distinctive clunk when my T5 used to engage first so I know what you're on about, Baz

I'll clearly have to take it all out again and I'm going to replace the pressure plate and bronze actuating pad. I'll have a look at the entire actuating mechanism at the same time.

The castle nut, I torqued to 25 lbs per sq inch ie similar to a Lammy. is this about right?

"....the one that most people overlook is the big fat metal thrust washer under the clutch on the crankshaft. This doesnt need to be worn so much and the clutch will wobble when pulled in and make it grab. If you can see wear on it, change it!" __don't recall seeing this. Is it under the woodruff key?

Sorry for being such a plank

[bazman]

Yes mate , under the clutch sits on bearing has a groove in it to locate over woodruff key, stick in mate , lovely scooter, and great guys on here will keep you right !
Infact reading your post you've already fitted this?
Photo's please will make it easier to talk you through it perhaps?

[sean brady scooters]

it is in fact the thick washer or oil pump drive cog/washer that causes most probs with vespa clutches not working in my experience ,if worn in any way at all and not totally flat swapping clutches will never solve the prob of clutch drag .
As once these are worn and grooved it stops any clutch functioning correctly ,
as the worn grooves stop the inner and outer clutch bells from rotating indipendantly .
always fit a new one .

[sean brady scooters]

further more ,dont forget or overlook the fact that the cush drive springs may be shot

[gaz_powell]

forgot to add - put a new brass coloured thrust washer in it

this might help

http://www.scooterhelp.com/tips/engine/ ... vespa.html

gaz

[storkfoot]

Thanks, lads. The fog is clearing slowly. Is this the washer:

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/produ ... +_11351930