Fans /airflow / techies wanted

[TheSeeker]

I've always thought that fitting a Nitrous Oxide kit and simply pointing the nozzle at the barrel would give more performance through cooling that it would being burnt inside the cylinder.

Best regards

Ben

[carlos fandango]

FANS FANS FANS

My post has been hijacked by a weired nocturnal ducting sect

Sorry, but you know how these things happen ............... it was late, we were drinking, one thing led to another - One minute we were innocently talking about fans, the next we're talking about ducts......

I feel dirty now

This is how it starts ! you`ll be riding vespas next

[soulsurfer]

So basically you would end up with something that looked like the deloren (sorry about spelling) from the film back to the future but it would run cool as a cucumber and would keep cool and not seize at high speeds tuned to death...mmmmmm ..? yes I could live with that..while they all would laugh/take the p155 Id be blowing by them sat at the road side ringing the AA...Yep still live with that...

There was a very nice scooter (can't remember the make) in scootering a little while back where the guy had done a lot of this sort of thing really nicely - You really didn't notice what was different. It sounded like he worked in F1 (all the ducts were bespoke and carbon fibre )

Yes, it was a guy that had fitted an auto engine into a Puch Alpine who h required more cooling. A very cleverly engineered conversion indeed.

[Andy Pickering]

Right go on then..FANS..why not turn your toolbox into a fan housing (knackered if you have a large tank)..Then weld a spigot on the bottom of the toolbox and the top of the cowling then flexi hose one to the other..Now the problems start..which fan how to run a fan big enough to do the job..12 volt fans I would imagine wouldnt spread the smell of a fart.. If you got a fan big enough to do the job and could wire it through the 12 volt would you double the fuel consumption ....

[carlos fandango]

Right go on then..FANS..why not turn your toolbox into a fan housing (knackered if you have a large tank)..Then weld a spigot on the bottom of the toolbox and the top of the cowling then flexi hose one to the other..Now the problems start..which fan how to run a fan big enough to do the job..12 volt fans I would imagine wouldnt spread the smell of a fart.. If you got a fan big enough to do the job and could wire it through the 12 volt would you double the fuel consumption ....

Have you been on that virtual beer again
By fan i meant the orignal fan on the flywheel
Though it seems know one is interested
Though im pleased my post has generated 7 pages of replies
By the way im a joiner to, which is why i was thinking about fans. the fans on my extractors are paddle fans.
The thing is someone i know is getting some fans reproduced, i obviously can`t say to much about it at the moment
But his design is based on the original style, but all the fans on industrial extractors are paddle fans ie like the 80s taffspeed plastic ones.
So which is the most effiecient design? i know that some fans are low volume high pressure (LVHP) and some are high volume low pressure (HVLP) (are you still wake ) i think the paddle fan is a HVLP and the original is more common design in LVHP motors like vacuum cleaners. so i would think the paddle fan is more effiecient? but as isaid im a joiner not a fan designer

[Andy Pickering]

You mean flywheel then..not FANS...Right I think this has been done to death but might be wrong...The flywheel is at breaking point or beyond what it was designed for even the lightweight/plastic ones..with the heat that mega tuned RB..TS1 kits produce...The next step forward has got to be extra cooling from another source carlos....I personally still believe in somehow harnessing the element that blows us all over the road and makes us wrap up warm cause its bloody cold.. ..some form of ducting (oh look I said it again) under the scoot and get it to the head cowl...thats where it gets hard...Oh and yes Im on the beer again

[156 D]

You mean flywheel then..not FANS...Right I think this has been done to death but might be wrong...The flywheel is at breaking point or beyond what it was designed for even the lightweight/plastic ones..with the heat that mega tuned RB..TS1 kits produce...The next step forward has got to be extra cooling from another source carlos....I personally still believe in somehow harnessing the element that blows us all over the road and makes us wrap up warm cause its bloody cold.. ..some form of ducting (oh look I said it again) under the scoot and get it to the head cowl...thats where it gets hard...Oh and yes Im on the beer again

........by the way i`m a joiner as well ...that makes 3 so far :bouncing: ........when materials get hot the molecules in them get lively and on the surface of jump about a lot... so just like blowing across your hot cup of tea... so you can drink it ...you blow off or blow away some of the molecules which in turn makes it cooler....look at motor bike engines... the exhaust pipes are always to the front in the airflow and not to the rear of the cylinder......when your ignition is retarded the spark happens to late and part of the combustion happens into the exhaust port thus overheating the engine...but what makes it overheat is the conduction of the heat through the metals and into the piston ready for a heat seize......OK so your ignition is correct and so is everything else tuning wise .....if a largish "V" shaped duct is put underneath in place of the splashguard ....the "V" would be in line with the tyre so either side of the tyre the air would be directed to one side... the flywheel... and the other... the exhaust pipe and silencer....the "V" ducting could be tubular as well to make the air velocity higher over the hot exhaust.....this would aid cooling blowing more of the lively molecules away quicker so less heat is transferred back to the cylinder head......something similar could be thought out for the flywheel side, albeit with more difficulty..... So far this is my contribution to your airflow thoughts....

[drunkmunkey6969]

......when your ignition is retarded the spark happens to late and part of the combustion happens into the exhaust port thus overheating the engine...but what makes it overheat is the conduction of the heat through the metals and into the piston ready for a heat seize...

Apart from that one line, i agree with the rest of Keith/Robert/Trebor/156D's post.

In my experience, when you advance the spark you get more low down grunt, but more heat in the combustin chamber.....but when you retard the spark, you get more peak power and it pushes the heat into the exhaust....you retard any spark and the engine runs cooler. (When i say retard, i mean less advance.....so 23 runs hotter with more low grunt, 16 runs cooler with more peak)

As for ducting etc, i've had it in mind for a while to carve holes/vents or just place a scoop at the bottom of the racers Vega leggies, and run a flat/wide vent along them (not too disimilar to Jasons scoop) and out onto the flywheel inlet (which we have opened and curved/cupped) and also onto the cylinder head, and across the cowl exit vent (venturi/chimney etc).

Vision a wide inlet scoop at the front, a narrow venturi/chimney effect in the middle, fanning into a 3-way split at the end (just needs 2 fins to separate the flow) onto the flywheel/cylinder cowl/cylinder vent etc.

Even better.....we f@@k the flywheel fan off....gain 2hp......ditch the splash plate b@11@x and cylinder cowls etc, and fit the above scoop/vent system only, with an MB aircooled head (massive heads with loads of fins).........cool city!

Not many machines rely on flywheel fan cooled systems these days......its time we all got with the program.

[RICSPEED]

oh make that four

[carlos fandango]

Not many machines rely on flywheel fan cooled systems these days......its time we all got with the program.

I`d agree on the track, but i`m talking about road going scooters where 99% use fan cooling.

oh make that four

Perhaps we should start our own club