Super Monza for charity - child cancer research

[Tom Russell]

Thought I'd just post up the dyno graph, produced by Charlie Edmonds at Performance Tuning, after he set up Steve Chapmans Super Monza engine.

Unless I've had far too much of the Red stuff this evening (probably), this graph seems to differ quite considerably from the graphs on this topic?! We've both got the handmade Charlie Edmonds Ultimate exhausts, so maybe this is why the kit seems to rev on a great deal more?

Though, in my defence, I've got to say, what do I know

[Darrell Taylor]

i was thinking the same tom ,not sure what make dyno it is michael but i have had experiences with parts direct from malossi auto zip race kits quoted 23 read on my dyno 20 and polini evo 3 70 factory engine with dyno graph of 24 reads 21 on my dyno then factory polini 90 motor graph at 27 read 24 on mine as well as parts from stage 6 in germany who run on the p4 dyno showing 25 that read 22 on mine so they regularly show what equates to approx crank bhp so knowing that the super monza was sold as an honest 30bhp 20 torque kit i felt the graphs were perhaps a little on the positive side compared with results seen on some uk dyno,s ,still good results and for the purpose of the article the % change is whats important when carrying out testing so 30 bhp or 100 oranges as a unit of measure is fine by me

[Adam_Winstone]

^ Is Tom not commenting more about the difference in rev range/rev on? This is a good example of the BIG difference an expansion will have on operating range.

Personally, I hate using a pipe that has too low (for my liking) a rev ceiling on a TS1, where it feels like you hit a rev limiter and have to change up, rather than hold on to a higher range. To me, cutting a TS1 off in (or before) its prime stops it from riding in the manner that I like to ride a TS. That said, I know others that love very restrictive pipes and a higher gear ratio to give the same/similar top end at lower revs, so it really is horses for courses! Indeed, I also dislike too peaky a pipe as much as I dislike too limiting a pipe.

What a difference a pipe makes!

Adam

[kefuti]

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[Tom Russell]

Hi Darrell/Adam,

Yep, totally agree, and appreciate that different dynos can give different results, but it's great to see the effect the different changes of carb, exhaust, head etc. are having on what I believe is a standard kit! It's rare we get to see such analysis carried out on a particular kit - a BIG thanks to Powolotti for this

What I was trying to highlight was - as Adam has picked up on - the revs of the kit, that is being tested. The dyno graphs on here seem to indicate that the kit has hit peak revs anywhere between 6500 and 7500rpm, depending on exhaust, carb etc. whereas Steve's graph (from Charlie at Performace Tuning) shows the kit (admittedly the full Ultimate setup and exhaust) revving on to 8000 to 8500 rpm - thats quite a considerable difference?!

Admittedly, I'm more interested to found out how my setup will perform on the road (only done about 250 steady miles on mine, before crap weather), but I won't be too happy if it revs out at 6500-7000rpm (actually I know it doesn't)!!

Once the weather improves, I'll be able to give some real honest feedback on my kit, based on using on the road and a few sprints. I also plan to get it up to Charlie for a dyno set up.

Cheers,

Tom

[Darrell Taylor]

having checked the rpm ranges of the graphs i think there may be an rpm discrepancy that is often seen on the variatronic ignition that shows the rpm scale off compared to other ignitions which moving the peak down 1 to 2000 rpm.hugely bumps up the torque figure,it happened on my dyno when sticky brought his rapido 225 i tuned and it showed 24 torque but peak was 1500 rpm lower than expected and in reality it did 20/21

i suppose it would be worth doing a dyno run without rpm pick up ,or calculate back the rpm to the speed for the gearbox in use to see if they match

[Tom Russell]

having checked the rpm ranges of the graphs i think there may be an rpm discrepancy that is often seen on the variatronic ignition that shows the rpm scale off compared to other ignitions which moving the peak down 1 to 2000 rpm.hugely bumps up the torque figure,it happened on my dyno when sticky brought his rapido 225 i tuned and it showed 24 torque but peak was 1500 rpm lower than expected and in reality it did 20/21

i suppose it would be worth doing a dyno run without rpm pick up ,or calculate back the rpm to the speed for the gearbox in use to see if they match

Right, now that all makes sense, thanks for pointing this out Darrell

[Adam_Winstone]

^... interesting, kind of screws things up if it doesn't give a true account of the RPM readings

I guess that a factor could be applied to get somewhere nearer but you're right that the RPM could be calculated if the gearing was known.


Tom, Don't worry, I don't think you'll find the motor too slow!

Adam

[Tom Russell]

Tom, Don't worry, I don't think you'll find the motor too slow!

Adam

You're right there Adam, in the few miles I've done, it's very impressive

[Powolotti]

I was surprised (and suspicious) as you are. Transmission was 1) calcualted by the Dyno (Amerschläger P4) and after the low peak and high torque 2) checked by a Lammy gearbox table and the calculation was correct. All runs are in 3rd gear. Varitronic Ignition has to be set at the Dyno software (Value 0,5 - which means 2 pulses per revolution). The people owning the dyno also checked everything again.
I think it is important not to look at bhp on different dynos, but on the curve itself - how does the engine perform and when (at which revs). The Dyno i use has a 5% +/- tolerance, so in the worst case you might do a run with + 5% (eg 31,5 bhp) and on another run you will read -5%, 28,5. But..I have never seen this happen on the dyno I use, all runs are replicablewith the same readings. Tyre pressure and engine temperature also make differences. At the Dynoplace there was an exhaust from Pipe Design, "Duster" which is also a very long and fat pipe and produces about the same curves like the italian SM pipe on heavy tuned malossi cylinders.

I am getting a CE pipe within the next week and will test it against the italian pipe, maybe these two are totally different (?)