MB Race Tour cylinder kit opinions

[jonnyb]

I wouldn't dismiss the mugello v4 kits just yet, i think some of the bad press is just down to the rather large number of people using them. I bolted a v4 200 onto a good motor with quality components, matched the inlet, exhaust and opened the transfers up and it made just a little over 20hp with a 30mm and nk exhaust.

I commute 15 miles each way, thrash it around the lanes and often pop out on short trips to the shops and it's been faultless........ touch wood

[victor]

... matched the inlet, exhaust and opened the transfers up...

Well, that's the problem, they seem to arrive in good and bad batches, and requires work to get them fit. You seem to have been lucky and you know enough to do the porting and have the tools, so the result is good.

But you could as well receive a bad one, and without the work on it I find it unlikely that it will run any better than the stock barrel I have now...

So, it seems as if it boils down to the following:

GT
£470 with por. head
Cast iron
Reed
12-14 bhp with 24mm
Yamaha piston? (£40)
Easily reborable

RT
£530 (found a discounted kit) or £350 end of sep (Taiwan)
Ceramic lined alu
No reed
15-18 bhp with 26mm
Forged uk made proprietary piston (£140 to replace)
Reboring possible but would require relining

I'm not sure which one would be easier to tune in the future should I want to go further, and if the GT is currently available.

Does anyone have first hand experience of both the kits? If you have any negative experience and prefer to remain anonymous please PM me and I wont disclose any names

[Rich_T]

It would be a pretty poor build to get less than 14bhp out of a GT186.

Typical I get 14 from a GT186 with PHBL25 and AF 42mm clubman. I don't have time to twiddle all day yet my first shot at as fast GT engine produced 20bhp @ 6krpm and this was pretty much bolt together with off the shelf parts 7 years ago.

There's a batch of 40 kits at the machine shop, will be finished late Aug with any luck.

[jonnyb]

I'll consider myself lucky.....

Are you expecting to bolt a on a new kit and its inlet, exhaust and transfers to match perfectly with your manifold, exhaust and engine case?

Good luck to you

I'll add that the kits you mention above are both great IMHO

[Muttley McLadd]

Are you expecting to bolt a on a new kit and its inlet, exhaust and transfers to match perfectly with your manifold, exhaust and engine case?

Good luck to you

My GT matched my engine case and exhaust perfectly when it came.

And it came with a manifold that was a perfect fit.

[Special X]

Think people are confusing the 186 Mugello with the 200/225 Mugello. ALL the 186 Mugellos give great performance when bolted on properly. It's the 200/225 big blocks that have poor performance mainly due to the very tame transfer timing. Don't know what the "bad batch" thing is about. The only problems I've heard of are some bad piston rings on a VERY small amount of 225's sold in 2006. Cam lam stood by this and replaced them and any kits damaged as a result of this were replaced. Buy TINO's products from Camlam with confidence!

If you want a smooth torquey power delivery with about 14 bhp the GT kit is probably the one to go for. If you want a "zippier" power delivery then it's Mugello, or you could pay more for the RT and it'll look better cosmetically until it's fitted.

Typical Mugello 186 fitted timings are 172 exhaust, 124 transfer, and 148 inlet (for the MK1) a good choice would be a second hand Mugello, have it replated and fit a quality piston.

[drunkmunkey6969]

Gotta say, as a side note, I don't like the nicasil on the 225 Muggello.....it flakes badly when porting which makes the job more complicated and time consuming.

[victor]

If you want a smooth torquey power delivery with about 14 bhp the GT kit is probably the one to go for. If you want a "zippier" power delivery then it's Mugello, or you could pay more for the RT and it'll look better cosmetically until it's fitted.

Torquey power seems good, would have hoped for some more than 14 though...

The GT seems to have very satisfied customers, so it's not an easy choice...

Does anyone have, positive or negative, first hand RT experience? How's the proprietary piston for example...?

[victor]

If you want a smooth torquey power delivery with about 14 bhp the GT kit is probably the one to go for. If you want a "zippier" power delivery then it's Mugello, or you could pay more for the RT and it'll look better cosmetically until it's fitted.

Torquey power seems good, would have hoped for some more than 14 though...

The GT seems to have very satisfied customers, so it's not an easy choice...

Does anyone have, positive or negative, first hand RT experience? How's the proprietary piston for example...?

Also, does anyone have some GT dyno charts...?

[Philipp]

hello,

after other dealers commented I hope it is only fair that I do the same.

there is no question, what our recommandation is. wait untill the bgm MRB RT kits are ready.

these are easy plug & play kits with Mark's tuning expereience for decades now. we have fitted three 225cc versions and three 195cc versions for testing the kits in all terms.

with this post I do referr to the 195cc versions for the small casings only. the dyno sheets are of a Li 150 Series 1 (fitted with SX 150 engine). Everything on the engine is plug & play, we took the sample of the kit and fitted it to the casings w/o matching transfers ports from casing to barrel. the exhaust used is a sito exhaust.

this dyno sheets shows the RT engine with 25 PHBL carb - blue graph.

the red grah shows the Mugello 186 V4 (bridged inlet) with 25mm PHBL and sito clubman. this scooter is of a customer of ours. he build the engine and came in for dynoing it.



the next graph shows the Mugello engine against the RT engine where we have replaced the PHBL25 for the bgm PWK 28mm.



sadly the dyno software has a bug. so I can't load the comparsion of a GT 186 fitted engine to the RT 195.

but like all the RT fitted engines we have tested, it is bloody quick. it was GPS'd with 127.6 km/h (79.75 mph).



this on a Series 1 and Oli even bettered this the next day with 131.6 km/h (82.25 mph).

a simple bolt on solution without the need for checking everything and than fiddle for hours an hours to get things right.

Cheers Philipp