T5 Exhaust

[Boz]

Folks,
Firstly apologies if this has ever been discussed in another thread anywhere....
Got my brothers old 1987 mark 1 T5 back on the road recently...it's the DDK one that was in Scootering magazine [issue 309 March 2012] last time it was on the road was 1993....
Anyway it's had a full engine rebuild to standard spec via Eddy Bullet. First trips on road & it wasn't running / pulling right -struggling to get over 40mph & very flat performance, so MSC had it last week on their rolling road. original standard carb checked / set up correctly.... & it got upto 80mph !.....problem identified / advised as exhaust though - power band too high up rev range requring major thrashing to get it to move.....which I am not keen on doing as engine is just rebuilt & requires treating carefully.......
It's got a brand new chrome Kegra pipe [unused from 2002] fitted which I always thought were good for generally riding - but obviously it isn't suiting the standard motor......
Looking therefore at a more suitable l/h/s expansion pipe with lower / mid rev range power band to make the scooter more useable.....

Options as I see it are;

1)Scorpion - off shelf availability / stainless finish / simple swop
2)SIP / JL - website has many options to suit kitted motors, wide wheel, spare wheel carried, stainless /plain finish etc etc
3)PM Tuning - always been told that these are quite peaky (i.e. same problem as Kegra)
4)Mickek - obsolete / not BSAU 193 T2 compliant / would need chroming (if condition OK)

Just seeing if anyone has any advice / recomendations before I commit & buy a new pipe at approx £250/£300...

Cheers

Boz

[Mongo]

80 mph does seem very good for a standard T5

If its standard engine spec then I'd try and get hold of a standard pipe. If you definetly want an expansion, then I'd try and get hold of a taffspeed, which has good torque and allows good rev on. It works well on mine, but that has a Polini kit on it. It took me a short while to get used to my T5, but in essence they like being thrashed and kept high up the rev band. If you're genuinely getting 80mph out of a standard T5 I'd leave everything well alone.

[markauk]

my standard T5 used to hit 75/80 with a Sito Plus, they suit standard T5s very well

[Boz]

Thanks for the suggestions guys....
Should point out the motor has only done about 25 miles since full rebuild & the 80mph was acheived by Malc Anderson at MSC on their rolling road - not out on the open road (yet anyway)!!.....I did raise my eyebrows when Malc told me & then he raised his when I told him the engine had only done a few miles.... hmmmmmm......
My dimema is that I love the styling of the l/h/s pipes on Vespas - like the Kegra currently fitted [have expansion pipes on all my other tuned scooters [PX210/GPTS1's/TV190 etc]
The Sito Plus is standard looking & not my cup of tea styling wise to be honest....If the Taffspeed is another revvy pipe with a power band at the top of the rev range, then I suspect it will not be any better than what I have now.....Just need a pipe that works lower down the rev range so that I don't need to scream the nuts off it to get it to move....
Way back in 1990-92 when this scooter was used daily & also for rallies it had a mark 1 PM tuning pipe - with end of muffler scraped away....it was loud (& illegal - No BSAU193T2)..... but the scooter absolutely flew ....& power was virtually instant from pulling off / changing up gears....makes me wonder whether another PM would work the same...but people always seem to say PM's are peaky as well.....?
The Scorpion pipe seems to look OK & plenty about - loads on e-bay for example, but don't know if this points to them not been very good or not..? Also, there is the Sterling pipe but get the impression that these are not as well built as the other established pipes mentioned....?
If I am going to splash out on a new expansion pipe, then just need to be sure it will work well with the standard motor.....
Any more comments of suggestions appreciated..!
Cheers,
Boz

[Mongo]

I appreciate what you're saying Boz, but the T5 engine is a revvy engine by nature. You should really aim for a pipe that complements the engine characteristics. Mine comes alive after 5 and half - 6 thousand revs but with the Taffspeed pipe gets over 16 lb/ft torque.(It is kitted though.) As mentioned before if you want a pipe that gives good torque then go for the standard or sito plus. S.I.P also do a Taffspeed replica made by JL which is a left hand side pipe. Whether or not it'll work on a standard engine I don't know. I'm not an expert by any means and there are people on here who are alot more knowledgeable than me, but the person who built my engine said that Taffspeeds are the best pipes out there for 'kitted' T5's. I think you'll be lucky to bolt a pipe on and suddenly get loads more torque from a standard motor. I maybe wrong.

Good luck anyway mate

[ducksta]

would like to see the dyno graph posted on here m8 80mph takes some beleiving

[bazman]

would like to see the dyno graph posted on here m8 80mph takes some beleiving

80mph on a DYNO is realistic imo, have a look at my old ts1 running jl3 it got to 93mph on the dyno, no where near that in reality on the road .
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPY6iSuW ... ure=relmfu[/youtube]

[Boz]

Thanks for the further comments guys...
As I said earlier the 80mph on the rolling road was advised verbally by MSC when I picked the scooter up last week...I wasn't there to verify this but given the point by bazman, I would take it as potentially possible - albeit flat out nothing else to give etc...
As for actual road speed then this will no doubt be less....
When the scoot was in regular use (& with new clutch / piston rings) I can remember riding to Morecame 91 rally sat on the M6 with the speedo showing a steady 75mph....whether this was accurate or not is open to the usual debate on how reliable scooter speedo's really are....?
Going back to the Taffspeed pipe & Mongo's comments about the power band kicking in around 5500rpm, then this sounds around mid-range to me so may well be worth following up....One other option is of course to put on a temporary exhaust (standard/sito plus/simonini etc) for running in period & general low end rpm riding....
Whilst I do also have tuned scoots I am not a thrash merchant, & treat all my motors with TLC, so they last....(in theory.....)
Think everyone loves a motor with a nice pipe & the noise / feel they give when accelerating.....just want that same grin :biggrin: back on my face with this scooter really..
Cheers
Boz

[joeythescooterboy]

Best pipe I ever had on my T5 was Taffy Goldline while both standard and kitted.
Blew the 172 kit so put standard back on but kept 21 tooth drive..... still went well.

[paul d]

I'm in the same boat as joeythescooterboy in that I've wrecked my kit but left the 21 tooth clutch in the bike . If your T5 has a standard engine then the only pipe that'll work well in my experience is the standard one or a sito plus . I've tried a scorpion and a simonini with a standard engine and while the bike seemed to be very fast in the city , on the open road it was hard to keep the bike at any kind of respectable speed . Performance pipes on a T5 provide a very narrow powerband and kill off what little torque the bike has to begin with . With a 172 kit both of the pipes mentioned above work really well .