GP frame

[tonydevon]

Yes theres some rules. But read it properly. Lots of it wont apply.
exhaust noise level is about the most difficult as you cant really measure it at home unless you got the right gear.
Thibk somehow you read stuff that dont apply and scared yourself. What section was the suspension in.
From experience lights do not have to be e marked. Nor do the mirrors. They have to fulfil certain criteria. They are automatically assumed to pass if e marked.

[tonydevon]

Just read the MSVA on the you gov website. The vehicle must have 2 mirrors E stamped no it doesnt, a stand warning device (wrong again), a alarm/immobiliser (nope a simple battery isolator will do), E marked bulbs (erm no again), very strict noise and exhaust readings (pre 93 engine, no emissions test, just sound level), no user adjustable shocks.(utter tosh? no bike would ever pass otherwise, every bike has adjustable suspension tese days, you dont even have to have suspension to pass it) After reading that lot I gave up reading the rest of it, there are hundreds of pages. And all that for a Q plate.

I suggest you go back and look at just the relevant pages, a bike can pass MSVA and still fail an MOT!! which by the way you dont need for 3 years after the test, so that recoups the test fee

ok so Im new to the site and dont want to stand on anyones toes or upset people, but I do have to correct people when they are wrong

the manual is written in a way that means you just have to weed out the simple fact you need, people do like you have and read about inhibitor switch for the stand then panic, if you have one fitted it means that certain subsections arent tested, however if you read that page correctly then you would see that all you need is a side or centre stand, you will have centrestand, it must automatically fold backwards or up away from the floor when the bike is pushed forwards and stay up out of the way, last time I checked this already happened, courtesy of a big spring

again the mirrors, if they have an E mark, they are assumed to be ok, but you can use non e marked, so long as they fill the criteria

lighting, no mention at all in the manual regarding they have to be emarked, however if they are E marked, then they are automatically deemed to be the right colour in the case of a white LED marker light

the stupid thing is that you can pass with bald tyres, knackered wheel bearings, leaking shocks etc, this test is about construction and not about condition


if you have questions then please ask, I will do my best to help, I have done a few of these tests now, they really are very common sense, and I have to reiterate, its only a one off test, what gets changed after its passed is none of their business, a Q plate is free rein for the future, ie bike engine conversions etc.

only thing I would add is that I would seriously advise that you put it through its test as a 180 big bore maybe any cc over 175?? reason being the limit of 99dba is far easier to achieve that the 94dba for a 125 etc

[T5-190]

Hi Tony, thanks for the pointers. It is always better to get the heads up from someone like yourself who has been there. When reading that online MSVA it is a little scary for sure. I suppose alot of it is down to how it is read and interpreted. But the no user adjustable suspention came from Frank from Lambretta Innovations. He has to MSVA all his creations and he told me the last time we met that the one thing they fail his scooters on was user adjustable suspention. He has to put fixed units on then change back when tested. Maybe they are a little more strict at his vehecle test station than say yours or mine.

[Mag]

This may have been asked/answered earlier couldn't you buy replacent frames to replace those beyond repair(which would be a lot more than it used to be when they were not eBay

I vaguely remember an Italian GP when I worked in Mo-tech in the late 80's that the frame number obviously wasn't innocenti factory standard. I asked the owner and he said he had had a smash on it years before and it had been repaired with a replacement new chassis and the original number retained.

Question being if someone has a completely knackered frame, a rusted barn find or something, then could it not be legit to use the identity on a new chassis? I know this is what mgb/midget owners did for years with new heritage chassis made by Rover.

[bristolmod]

I know frames were sold as replacements and were unstamped in the 1960's. Badly damaged frames could be legally replaced and the old frame number transferred to the new frame with no problems.

DVLA have obviously tightened up the process and do in fact "refuse" new registrations if the number "does not appear correct" (here in Bristol anyway).

Consequently, people DO cut out the old number and stitch it into another frame, thus "retaining" its identity- is this legal or not? I just don't know. If its in a bid to disguise a stolen frame, then yes it is definitely illegal; if its to repair/ replace a damaged frame, then legal or not?

Also it begs the question as to how much of the original frame do you use before it becomes illegal- there have been some pretty drastic cutdowns for sale on Ebay over the years- basically a tube showing the numbers BUT with a V5C- hardly more than just the cut out number at times!

I'll be contentious and say that a stitched in number MAY be legal as long as its not done to disguise a stolen frame- but then again, how do you prove that you're not trying to deceive!!

Minefield IMO

Chris

[tonydevon]

Taking the numbers from one to another is ringing.
In the bike and trike world the ruling is to do with altering the main cradle ie engine loop. If you bolt on a hardtail then its ok. But wed stuff on and its iffy.

[bristolmod]

but when does repairing a frame become ringing?

There was a case on here a while ago when a frame was rotted through with rust. The guy rebuilt it by grafting on a complete front section from somewhere near the bridge piece- it was done very professionally and I am not implying that there was anything amiss with what he did.The repaired frame retained the old identity.

It just begs the question as to how much can be grafted on to an "old" frame (with numbers) before that "old" frame is, in effect, a new frame.............

Take it to its extreme and you could argue that the you rebuilt the frame just forward and just rearward of the stamped number section!

I'll bet the local DVLA offices have no laid down rules on this

Chris

[tonydevon]

The rules in relation to cars are i believe being the guide.
You can repair or replace outriggers bodymounts etc but structural changes will require inspection and test etc.
The test isnt hard. So i prefer not to take the risk and just do it properly.
The manual isnt open to interpretation. Its black and white. You can do whatever you want unless it says you cant or has conditions regarding the matter.
Sadly theres far too many down the pub experts that never even read the manual. Probably cant even read. That spout utter drivel about how hard the test is.
If you print it all out at work ideally lol. Then bin all the bits you dont need.
Go through with a highlighter pen marking the relevant bits and suddenly its all very easy.
Im due to start my scratch built frame for my scoot in the next month or so. Probably msva early next year maybe i will post up the build and test info. Show its not hard and if a shed builder like me can do it. Then its very easy lol

[RICSPEED]

ok so Im new to the site and dont want to stand on anyones toes or upset people

dont be shy mate ...if you can help /answer any questions you feel you can comment on dont hold back ...

thank you

ric

[alcoholic maniacs sc]

there are a number of people round my way who have come across unstamped Indian frames. may have been a 90's batch. i bought a load of panel work off a local guy and he asked me if i had a lammy logbook. i GAVE him a spare GP one i had and he took the frame down to an engravers ( can't punch stamp the frame or you risk damaging the tube and blow me it looked like a bang original factory mark. i was pretty amazed.stamp up a sil new engine with the correct number and hey presto. he still riding the bike now, it wasnt a shop or a guy looking to make money. he seems pretty happy and he's not looking over his shoulder. id happily do the same if it was for my use and the bike wasnt stolen.