Suzuki 190

Anything related to Lambrettas... ask tech questions, post helpful info, or just read and learn.
tony172
registered user
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:50 pm
Main scooter: vespa t5
Contact:

Wed May 20, 2020 5:02 pm

Suzuki 190 on a 150 cylinder, whose done it?
Can it be done?
I'm getting conflicting info from people -
MB say don't do it
Chisels say yes
SRP say yes
Facebook says yes and no!
Some say only Italian tv175

I've got a Spanish li150 barrel
I can get an Indian 175 (are they bored out 150?)

Is it just a case of 150s needing porting? Or are they too thin in the wall?

Please help! I need facts from folks who know, instead of Chinese whispers from Facebook
Thanks boys
Tony

User avatar
EddieStone
registered user
Posts: 400
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:13 pm
Main scooter: Lambretta Li 150
Contact:

Wed May 20, 2020 7:57 pm

I went down this path, even to the point of getting a TV175 barrel. The TV175 barrel is the best option as the transfer ports are bigger than most barrels and it needs less topping and tailing.
If you really decide to do it, try and get Harry Barlow to do it, he's the most enthusiastic. Bear in mind you will need a GP crank if you haven't already.

The honest truth is that there are much better options these days than the Suzuki 190, which is why some people say don't bother. Even a half decent 185 kit is a better option - better transfer ports and an alloy barrel, but the best option is a decent kit such as a Mugello or a GT186. They are better designed, being designed specifically for a Lambretta rather than cobbling bits and pieces together to get a 190cc capacity, and reed valves are an option.

The Suzuki 190 is valid conversion but it's pretty old fashioned compared to what's available. If you are able to do the work yourself and you know what you are doing they can be a cheap option. But for the minimum amount of effort and something you just bolt on and go, go for a modern kit.

I found more tuners were willing to sell me a kit they know works than faff around working on a barrel for a 190 conversion. The modern kits are much better - many thousands of miles have been covered by lots of people, compared to the Suzuki 190.

That's probably the most objective realistic opinion I can give, having seriously considered it.

tony172
registered user
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:50 pm
Main scooter: vespa t5
Contact:

Thu May 21, 2020 6:53 am

:thanks for the reply!
I tried Harry yesterday but couldn't get through although I've had a good quote from srp racetech.
Im considering this option as it suits the style of scoot I'm doing and it seems to be the best for my budget-- coming in at about 400 for the piston, crank and machine work. This is obviously based on reboring a barrel I have on the shelf and reprofiling a head I have already.
I've messed about plenty with porting vespa cylinders so I'm fairly confident I can get a fair result from setting the transfers and moving and widening the exhaust port, and then the inlet timing and some smoothing. Obviously then topping the barrel to obtain squish.
The crank would be a mec 60/115 so not much cutting or packing and if using the quality mitaka 65mm piston I've basically got a quality 200cc kit and crank for 400 notes, and a few hours with the die grinder.
Going in a no-frills skelly with an 11 stone rider should pull well in theory.
I appreciate that it's easier to bang a muggy on but with decent smallblock kits starting at 450 without the crank it seems like the old school is an attractive option.
Wanna sell me your TV barrel?
Is the only benefit from the TV barrel the size of the transfers?
Thanks again
Tony

User avatar
EddieStone
registered user
Posts: 400
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:13 pm
Main scooter: Lambretta Li 150
Contact:

Thu May 21, 2020 12:02 pm

Yeah, the transfers are bigger than an Li barrel. Also I think there's less machining due to the height of the ports. Your quote is about the same as what I got including a crank and the work.

The Suzuki 190 is a traditional conversion, but they have a reputation for running hot. Jetting can be a game as well, depending what carb you've got in mind. I recommend getting a PWK/Keihin copy, they can be picked up for about £35 and are easier to jet in than the Dellorto SH1 or 2.

HB can be hard to get in touch with, and be prepared to listen when you do, but he knows what he's doing - he offered to do mine 'when I'm passing'.

In the end I got a used barrel re-bored by AF as a stop gap and was so impressed by how much grunt it had that I didn't bother with the 190. I knew the barrel had been tuned a bit, but it pulls from tickover. The piston gives about 185cc and all told it cost about £60 all in!

Warkton Tornado No.1
registered user
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:16 pm
Main scooter: Lambretta SX200
Contact:

Thu May 21, 2020 2:55 pm

Good question & responses.

Having set up a Suzuki 185 for somebody, I liked the results, though the owner loved it.

I reckon that nowadays, the conversion is even more practicable precisely because the PWK has proven to be a very competent carb that runs extremely well with adequate air filtration, which would be my personal choice, especially to catch the spitback inevitable with a piston ported set-up.

The problem might be that open mouthed might be considered 'sexier' I suppose. Yeah, right! The birds we used to pull years ago with the left leg of our baggies stinking of petrol! It used to send 'em bandy :lol:

User avatar
kevspeed
registered user
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:07 am
Contact:

Thu May 21, 2020 3:22 pm

Had a couple of 190 conversions,one with a 150 barrel bored out,and one with a Tv175 barrel,both went very well,but the Tv barrel had the edge.

Warkton Tornado No.1
registered user
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:16 pm
Main scooter: Lambretta SX200
Contact:

Thu May 21, 2020 10:47 pm

kevspeed wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:22 pm
Had a couple of 190 conversions,one with a 150 barrel bored out,and one with a Tv175 barrel,both went very well,but the Tv barrel had the edge.
What do you think is a realistic maximum bore for the small block cylinders?

The reason that I ask is that as the result of a cock-up, I received a couple of pistons of the wrong diameter for a project.

They are 65 mm diameter, cast alloy, 18 mm wrist pin (I've never had a problem with bushes or caps BTW) & are 38 mm compression height. They have one ring supplied but there's room to add another ring groove if it was a concern.

I've dug them out because a mate is going down the route of an Indian 175 barrel (I told him not to!) & the piston he will get could be fit only for the bin. Along with the barrel, probably. :roll:

User avatar
kevspeed
registered user
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:07 am
Contact:

Fri May 22, 2020 6:20 am

I've had a TV cylinder bored to take a 66mm piston, the walls were a bit thin, but I ran it in very carefully and all was well.
The maximum I've had a 150 cylinder out to was 64mm with the Suzuki piston, again all good.

Lamaddict
registered user
Posts: 852
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:35 pm
Contact:

Sat May 23, 2020 4:03 pm

So, I’ve done 3 of these great conversions and you don’t need to top and tail anything with the right crank.
The first was using a TV175 barrel, 60x115 crank (gives it a real 200cc’s) and it needed a 1mm packing plate.
Second and third ones I used an Indian SR185 with the 64mm bore (not the more common 62mm), they have the same porting as the TV175 but the ports need tidying up.
The heads need reprofiling for the Suzuki piston, got the first one off Chiselspeed and the second two from Mick Abbey, all 3 are good.
I only use 22 Jetex/ Dellorto’s with around a 128 main and 52 idle jets and standard exhausts.

tavspeed
registered user
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:58 pm
Contact:

Thu May 28, 2020 2:05 pm

cheapest bang for bucks,200 barrell and piston,machine spigot to suit 150 casing,drill out one of the cylinder holes,and you can squeeze them on after fettling gaskets etc

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 7 guests