LCGB AGM ref BLOA

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wintermod65
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Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:42 pm

nic you made some well presented valid incisive points with your post about the jetset article , try not to let mr Timbo wind you up. all this does is allow Mr Frankland off the hook , as his de facto wingman is taking all the flak . your knowledge of the LCGB could be better employed countering some of the absudities coming from the facebook BLOA not going over old ground with someone who clearly has some degree of personal animosity , almost vendetta towards you , tough i know in the face of provocation but that seems to me this Facebook BLOA's trademark with respect to this issue
after all the more layers of misinformation we strip away the closer we will come to the truth of the matter.
"stick 'em with the pointy end "!!
Last edited by wintermod65 on Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Timbo
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Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:09 pm

wintermod65 wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:42 pm
nic you made some well presented valid incisive points with your post about the jetset article , try not to let mr Timbo wind you up. all this does is allow Mr Frankland off the hook , as his wingman is taking all the flak . your knowledge of the LCGB could be better employed countering some of the absudities coming from the facebook BLOA not going over old ground with someone who clearly has some degree of personal animosity , almost vendetta towards you , tough i know in the face of provocation but that seems to me this Facebook BLOA's trademark with respect to this issue
after all the more layers of misinformation we strip away the closer we will come to the truth of the matter.
"stick 'em with the pointy end "!!
That’s all fine with me, what winds me up is someone telling porkies or lies or inventing untruths just to discredit me. I won’t have it. And for the record again 🙄 I have not met any Mr Franklin’s nor have I spoken with him, pm him nor am I involved with BLOA in anyway apart from being a paid member of the club. So some of what you have said is untrue.

Nic
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Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:43 pm

Timbo. You are one of Gavin Frankland's main mouthpieces on this forum. You chose to get involved by posting a snarky little dig at me on this thread. That's fine by me, you crack on old chap.

All I'm doing is pointing out the contradiction between your past and your current attitudes to democracy on forums like this one and other social media.

Live with it.

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Timbo
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Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:56 pm

Just stop with the lies about me then. Then I can live with it.

wintermod65
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Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:59 pm

well you seem to defend mr frankland rather evangellically seeing as all youve done is pay him a tenner ! ive altered the post to say de facto wingman

how do you know anything he has said has any modicum of truth about it if you have had no communications with him ? thats one hell of a leap of faith which is bringing you a lot of heat
its one i'm prepared to gamble on.
ask yourself why is Facebook BLOA is using Mike Karslakes Logos and not the one mr frankland applied to trademark eg the lambretta lion

ask yourself why he has put about that LCGB has only recently used BLOA branded merchandise When i have shown the Government agency responsible for trademark admistration the IPO recognised in 2012 LCGB's use of the BLOA name and Logos on merchandise dating back to 2003 this was found in a simple google search

ask yourself why do you send money as a personal gift via paypal to join Facebook BLOA and not as goods an services which it is im sure paypal would love to hear about that one.

ask yourself why has mr frankland made no mention of his application to trademark the lambretta lion logo
something if anything that belongs to the scootering fraternity as a whole as its use is so widespread and longstanding

ask yourself Are these the actions of an accountable organisation like the LCGB Is to its members or something more opaque

you cant just sit around wailing and lamenting about ancient greivances you have to place evidence into the public domain to support your side of the argument ,to which i see none just denials and shouting down anything anyone else says is true . its like saying team X is the best football team because gavin says so and not providing any statistics on historic or current performance to back it up.

instead you dodge the real issues and resort to handbags again people including myself would like answers before we spend money on subscriptions to organisations ,purchase merchandise or attend events etc even someone on Facebook BLOA has commented he hopes hes not the first to be sued for wearing a Facebook BLOA shirt jest or not id say gulity concious there !

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Timbo
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Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:36 pm

wintermod65 wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:59 pm
well you seem to defend mr frankland rather evangellically seeing as all youve done is pay him a tenner ! ive altered the post to say de facto wingman

how do you know anything he has said has any modicum of truth about it if you have had no communications with him ? thats one hell of a leap of faith to me
and not one i'm prepared to gamble on
ask yourself why is Facebook BLOA is using Mike Karslakes Logos and not the one mr frankland applied to trademark eg the lambretta lion

ask yourself why he has put about that LCGB has only recently used BLOA branded merchandise When i have shown the Government agency responsible for trademark admistration the IPO recognised in 2012 LCGB's use of the BLOA name and Logos on merchandise dating back to 2003 this was found in a simple google search

ask yourself why do you send money as a personal gift via paypal to join Facebook BLOA and not as goods an services which it is im sure paypal would love to hear about that one.

ask yourself why has mr frankland made no mention of his application to trademark the lambretta lion logo
something if anything that belongs to the scootering fraternity as a whole as its use is so widespread and longstanding

ask yourself Are these the actions of an accountable organisation like the LCGB Is to its members or something more opaque

you cant just sit around wailing and lamenting about ancient greivances you have to place evidence into the public domain to support your side of the argument ,to which i see none just denials and shouting down anything anyone else says is true . its like saying team X is the best football team because gavin says so and not providing any statistics on historic or current performance to back it up.
Thank you for changing your post...😉. I have zero knowledge or understand the legalities of what’s going on regarding the use of the name and i’m pretty sure I have never commented on this. I stand to be corrected. I admire your knowledge of this. I joined knowing there was a promise of 50’s style rally’s and also to support a new club (I had no previous knowledge about BLOA). There’s a rally in less than 3 weeks and two others planned so I could argue he’s delivered and as i’ve said £10 is not a huge gamble. The PayPal payment has never concerned me. I also get why LCGB members are upset. But believe me an awful lot of people have left over the years and yes of course a lot of people have joined.

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Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:01 pm

You know, seeing all the LCGB 'mob' slowly crawl out from under their rocks each week is like watching a horrific (but predictable) car crash in slow motion. It might seem to some people reading these threads, that a lot of people actually care about whether or not a new club is called BLOA. But the truth is, most don't. Most couldn't give a flying f@@k. If you boil this down to the absolute nitty-gritty, I'd be very surprised if more than a few hundred people actually were really that bothered. There's loads who have an opinion, and even more who enjoy watching this petty carnage ensue. But those who really give a f@@k...not that many. Not in the bigger scheme of things that is.

Out of the few hundred who really care, I'd say about 50 are passionate about it, to the point they will 'go the extra mile', and out of those 50...there are probably 20 who are seething to their back teeth, and then maybe about 15 whose p155 is boiling about the whole thing. But somehow, those few seem to make a tremendous amount of noise, and i mean a huge noise. Just look at Nic's diatribe. They'd love it if this whole BLOA thing just became too much hassle for most, and those who might have joined BLOA walked away. But more than that, they like to go MOB handed at it.

Straight in with legal expenses, no 'softly' approach as suggested at the AGM. If anyone thinks a club whose committee members knocking f@@k out of someone asking questions at an AGM is a 'softly' approach, they are sadly mistaken. And its not their money these power hungry c*nt5 are spending, its the members. I promise you, they would be a LOT more cautious if it were their own funds.

The LCGB committee - NOT THE CLUB OR ITS MEMBERS - but the committee, have a terrible reputation for being condescending, aloof, cliquey, and most of all...bullish, arrogant and lynch mob like. There are questions over financial matters, violence, intimidation, and more besides. It sucks.

See this letter which is out to all clubs at the moment? read ...

Image

Its the 'polite' tip of the iceberg. This letter was swiftly followed up with phone calls to all clubs, to pressure them to cut all ties with BLOA (ask members to quit membership) and to align with the LCGB. I guess the fear of having their card marked, or having event tickets 'allocated elsewhere' will be sufficient. No opinion of your own, no chance to live and let live. No chance to experience another club, or rally, or point of view.

LCGB committee want control, total control, and they will use club funds, pressure, and mob mentality to achieve it. Failing that...don't go for a slash.

I personally do not know Gav from BLOA (or any of the Gavs) but i did welcome a new Lambretta club, one that wasn't bathed in LCGB bitterness. But now, that has been in fact tainted by LCGB bitterness. Nic never comes on here, nor most of his LCGB bum fiddling cohorts, but here they all are. Like a jack in the box, mouthing off and chanting the party line. I saw on Facebook how one of his friends recently bought a BLOA t-shirt, and was immediately turned on, rinsed out and hung out to dry. It was ugly. But that's the LCGB for you...well the committee (and some former committee) members least ways.

Oh..and as for all that s**t about Gav banning people off his FB page...well seriously, after reading all this s**t, and the crap on Facebook, wouldn't you? Its nothing to do with North Korea style moderation, you thick tw@7, its to do with riding a scooter and not wanting to be surrounded by people who just want to cause s**t and stir crap, get some f@@king perspective.

The current LCGB committee are a set of clowns, they have ruined a brilliant club, What was once THE best Lambretta club in the world, is now a f@@king shambles. The took their first wrong turn when they ousted Kev Walsh (yes they f@@king did) and followed it up with the change in constitution to 'vote one out, vote all out'. Since then, its been a nightmare. They will be the downfall of the club.

Leave BLOA to rise/fall on its own, don't crush it. Vote out the current committee, vote in a new one. Ride your f@@king scooters.

Nic
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Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:57 pm

Wow, you really are angry and paranoid aren't you?

Lets sort out the truth from your fantasy:

1) It's not for you to tell us exactly how many of us or exactly how passionate we are about keeping our name and our heritage. Our members are not dumb and passive sheep - as you imply in your reductive and completely untrue "500 feel like this, of whom 300 genuinely feel like this and 100 say that, and 20 are really angry...."

What I find interesting is not just your lack of understanding that, actually the rank and file of the LCGB might feel that the BLOA name is ours and nor for someone else to steal off us. You show a complete contempt for the view of our members.

Frankly, you haven't got a clue anyway. To give one example: my club, New Forest SC is not exactly at the top of the barricades on this one. Yet we had a secret ballot of our LCGB members, nearly all of whom voted and the vote was 100% in favour of supporting the LCGB on this issue. Yes, 100%. I'm not the No. 1 in our Club. The top man is PeeJay Hinsley, someone who first joined the LCGB in 1967.

Sure, some of us feel more strongly than others, obviously. But the essence of any view is that whether it is passionately stated or voiced quietly, it should be listened to with respect. You aren't doing that. You should try showing our members respect.

2) We crawl out of the woodwork? Your post count is a fraction of mine on this site, despite being a member for nine years. I've posted 137 times on 63 different topics, two of which related to the LCGB. You have posted 20 times, eight of which have been about the LCGB. It's you who's crawling out of the woodwork, not me. Unless your current moniker is a sockpuppet identity for someone else who's been barred from Scooterotica under his real name? DO share

Yes, I admit that I come on her sometimes to defend the LCGB. What's wrong with that? People have the right to criticise us, I totally get that. And I have a right to defend the organisation I belong to. In your world you and your pals could just come out with any old s**t and all LCGB members would just have to take it, would they? Who decided that?

3) Kev Walsh was pushed out? b@11@x. I was there on the committee when he resigned. I won't go into the detail of what happened out of a lingering respect for Kev's past achievements but is is 100% the opposite of what you say. Those of us who experienced the last 12 months of Kev as GS know what really happened and you haven't got a clue.

4) Committee members "knocking f@@k out of someone asking questions at an AGM?" There was an alcohol fuelled fight in a toilet seven years ago between two people who felt passionately about an issue at the AGM earlier that day. One of them was a committee member. He resigned from the committee within 24 hours.

Incidentally, I was at that AGM and I remember being pushed and jostled and goaded into a fight by people who did not agree with the viewpoint I had expressed at that meeting. A committee member was assaulted outside that toilet by another individual who needed to be restrained by an off-duty policeman. You don't mention that. Why is this? Were you even there?

5) Our letter being the "polite tip of the iceberg". We have scores of affiliated clubs. We wrote to them politely, asking them for their support. The letter speaks for itself. It is as you say, polite. Ironically, it's because we are keen NOT to spend our members' money on a legal fight unnecessarily. We are still hoping that it may be possible if Gavin Frankland sees that the majority of the scootering community supports the LCGB he may think twice about proceeding with his plan.

We called some clubs because the letter went out just before Easter, when people were off to Whitby and we go to press in the next couple of days. Some people had opened their letters, others hadn't. Some didn't have their logos immediately to hand. We felt a call was appropriate to try to encourage a response ahead of the JetSet print deadline.

To suggest that clubs may end up supporting us because they've been browbeaten sounds to me like you are making up excuses in advance of seeing how many clubs back our request for support. For the record: allocation of tickets for any event is not club-dependent but based on individual applications. It always has been. So we have nothing to coerce a club with. Marking cards? Really? Is that what you think happens? Evidence?

Moreover, the suggestion that clubs with strong independent memberships and incredible records in their local scootering communities would be browbeaten by a phone call from an LCGB committee member is laughable. I challenge you to tell that story to members of any club which supported us and see what happens. In fact, you are welcome to come and meet PeeJay and tell him.

Incidentally, a thought: if you are so worried about intimidation, why didn't you blank out the name of the individual whose club the letter was sent to? Bit of a giveaway. The reality of course, is that there would never be any intimidation, either of those who back us or those like you who don't.

6) We want total control? What does that even mean? There are "questions over finances, intimidation and 'more besides"? Again, out with it. SPIT IT OUT. if you have any evidence, any at all, you should immediately publish it. Or, given that you are a member, raise it at the AGM.

If you don't feel confident because of "intimidation", give it to someone else to raise. Or pass it to Dan at Scootering and ask him to investigate, I really don't give a flying f@@k who you give it to or how it's raised. Just stop with your insinuations. The very fact that you make them without any hard evidence is actually a sign of moral cowardice, do you know that?

7) Committee members being "condescending, aloof, cliquey, and most of all...bullish, arrogant and lynch mob like". Fact: these people are all well-rooted in their local clubs. They have the respect of hundreds of members of the LCGB they come into contact every year. If you know different, again, name names. Give stories. Just stop making unsubstantiated allegations.

8) "I saw on Facebook how one of [NIc's] friends recently bought a BLOA t-shirt, and was immediately turned on, rinsed out and hung out to dry." Actually, I neither knew nor did I give a toss whether he bought anything, a T-shirt or a BLOA butt plug. That's up to him.

What mattered to me was that this guy, whom I rode with for many years, whom I treated as a best mate, who stayed round my house, whom I drank and socialised with outside of scootering, who was a friend of lots of Committee members and other longstanding LCGB members who treated him with nothing other than respect and kindness, suddenly started telling people on the FB BLOA page that during our time together his friends, me included, had been part of an LCGB "dictatorship".

He gave no evidence for this assertion. It was not just unsubstantiated but completely untrue, as he subsequently admitted. He made it to curry favour with people like you on the FB page, sadly. In my case, I saw that as a betrayal of friendship. The fact that you even have to lie about the motivation of my FB post says something about you, however.

9) It's OK to ban people from Gavin Frankland's FB page? You give the game away here. It's OK for him to come onto my FB page and talk about LCGB "buttwipes". It's OK for people on the BLOA FB page to be abusive and insulting - and tell lies - about the LCGB.

It's not OK for someone to go on there to defend his club's reputation. If someone shares - or even dares to "like" - a post about BLOA by an LCGB member, they get banned - even if they didn't make a comment themselves.

You dare to lecture us about democracy? We have an AGM. We have a constitution. People can propose motions, they can question the committee, they can attend committee meetings and speak if they wish. This contrasts, in your case with: no constitution, no AGM, no committee, no elections, no chance of influencing decisions made.

Our committee is NOT elected on a "one out all out" basis, BTW. It's called a "slate system", common in some political parties, as well as many trade unions and community organisations. The way it works is the outgoing committee at the GM proposes a "slate" of people to be elected. If you don't like it you propose your own slate, adding an individual, removing an individual, or replacing one individual with another.

Incidentally your suggestion that this system was introduced a few years ago is untrue. It has always been the same system. The only major change, apart from a few typos, was the removal of the General Secretary's role from the constitution in January 2011, agreed overwhelmingly by the AGM that year. I proposed that change, so I'm very sure what I'm talking about.

Right, that's your various points dealt with.

Let me just add: I accept completely you're free to join, be a member of and ride in any club you choose. That is totally your right and I have no quarrel with that. I wish you every success in a new club.

I'm simply telling you this: I and many, many, many members of the LCGB - if New Forest SC's recent ballot is anything to go by, the overwhelming majority of our Club's members - believe that you should not use our BLOA name or its imagery. This was assigned to us by Mike Karslake, their creator and our former and current Life President. It belongs to the LCGB. We will do what is needed to get back what we feel is rightfully ours.

All your bluster and bile won't change that. So sorry.

wintermod65
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Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:30 am

Timbo wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:36 pm
wintermod65 wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:59 pm
well you seem to defend mr frankland rather evangellically seeing as all youve done is pay him a tenner ! ive altered the post to say de facto wingman

how do you know anything he has said has any modicum of truth about it if you have had no communications with him ? thats one hell of a leap of faith to me
and not one i'm prepared to gamble on
ask yourself why is Facebook BLOA is using Mike Karslakes Logos and not the one mr frankland applied to trademark eg the lambretta lion

ask yourself why he has put about that LCGB has only recently used BLOA branded merchandise When i have shown the Government agency responsible for trademark admistration the IPO recognised in 2012 LCGB's use of the BLOA name and Logos on merchandise dating back to 2003 this was found in a simple google search

ask yourself why do you send money as a personal gift via paypal to join Facebook BLOA and not as goods an services which it is im sure paypal would love to hear about that one.

ask yourself why has mr frankland made no mention of his application to trademark the lambretta lion logo
something if anything that belongs to the scootering fraternity as a whole as its use is so widespread and longstanding

ask yourself Are these the actions of an accountable organisation like the LCGB Is to its members or something more opaque

you cant just sit around wailing and lamenting about ancient greivances you have to place evidence into the public domain to support your side of the argument ,to which i see none just denials and shouting down anything anyone else says is true . its like saying team X is the best football team because gavin says so and not providing any statistics on historic or current performance to back it up.
Thank you for changing your post...😉. I have zero knowledge or understand the legalities of what’s going on regarding the use of the name and i’m pretty sure I have never commented on this. I stand to be corrected. I admire your knowledge of this. I joined knowing there was a promise of 50’s style rally’s and also to support a new club (I had no previous knowledge about BLOA). There’s a rally in less than 3 weeks and two others planned so I could argue he’s delivered and as i’ve said £10 is not a huge gamble. The PayPal payment has never concerned me. I also get why LCGB members are upset. But believe me an awful lot of people have left over the years and yes of course a lot of people have joined.
im no geoffrey robertson QC either im a working class bloke who instead of being sucked into ancient arguments got off his rear end and just did a few google searches , then used a bit of common sense to come up with some reasonable questions which lets face it to date nobody has bothered to answer.
im a member of the unite union they send out letters asking for the membership to support various things such as our paydeal they have negotiated , the LCGB are doing nothing sinister or unusual by sending letters asking for support from affiliated clubs or its membership in general , not all of its 5000 members were present at the AGM so this is another way of gauging support for their action which i can understand them taking. they have no option with regards to procedure as its set out by the IPO .

Ive seen no evidence that mr frankland approached the LCGB to inform them or ask if they had any objections to his venture or that he sought their blessing or has offered to work together it cuts both ways.
i think the litmus test will be numbers attending LCGB events if people really disagree with the stance taken im sure theyll stay away .but lets wait an see on that one .

As for a 50s style rally Discodez and the Awfully pleasant put on the Teme valley rally for scooters of a certain vintage id be more persuaded to attend that than something causing as much controversy and bad feeling.
Any organisation suffers natural wastage the LCGB and Facebook BLOA are not exempt from it , my old club lost members back in the NRC/NSRA days too its not a bad reflection on the club and to be fair to the LCGB from what i understand every member has the opportunity to canvass support amongst the memberhip and stand for the committee Does this happen in the BSRA or facebook BLOA no it doesnt the LCGB may not be perfect or meet every individuals expectations but the are the most representative.
carry on personal vendettas with the LCGB by all means your entitled to an opinion but with respect to the issue provide some evidence
Last edited by wintermod65 on Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

wintermod65
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Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:49 am

oops repeated previous post !

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