EU, in or out?

[diesel]

Jonzo just like you get to take part in the process of deciding who gets to represent your constituency in parliament and by extension but not directly who gets to be prime minister ( the Conservative party chose who their nominee for that position was going to be) so too the euro elections of 2014 saw the European Peoples Party win the most seats so their man (who participated in televised debates with the other contenders for the job just like the general election so that people like you and I could decide who represented our constituency and by extension who got to be president of the commission) got the job in a parallel to your national system although more democratic in that it was proportional representation which allowed ukip to actually gain representation proportional to their vote. The rest of the commission as I'm sure you know are chosen by the national governments of the day ( the electoral cycles being different to national elections) so just like wanting shot of the conservative nominee for the position of minister for health or defence or whatever you vote for another party and hope that enough people in enough constituencies do likewise. If you don't want a conservative minister for health the best thing is not to give him the job in the first instance as you need to wait on events or the electoral cycle to get rid of him/her. When I voted for my preferred euro candidate I was also voting by extension for Juncker (I knew that and voted accordingly although it wasn't my primary reason) so if I don't like him I can vote differently in 2019. How you vote is up to you.

[jonzo172]

Junker won his election and as a result was only "put forward" by the European Council for presidency, the European Parliament then decides whether they are going to appoint him or not. Just because he won his election doesn't guarantee he becomes president, the European Parliament decides whether to appoint him or not, any vote you may have cast will only indirectly bring him to the table so to speak... not very democratic and bearing no resemblance to our own system of democracy where we can vote to get rid of the party that directly governs us if we don't like them.

[diesel]

Junker won his election and as a result was only "put forward" by the European Council for presidency, the European Parliament then decides whether they are going to appoint him or not. Just because he won his election doesn't guarantee he becomes president, the European Parliament decides whether to appoint him or not, any vote you may have cast will only indirectly bring him to the table so to speak... not very democratic and bearing no resemblance to our own system of democracy where we can vote to get rid of the party that directly governs us if we don't like them.

Put forward by the council because they must since the Lisbon treaty recognise the result of the euro elections and the European Parliament made up of elected MEPs then votes on it what's not democratic about it? you then wait for the next election to vote again just like you do with your general election. You don't directly vote for the minister for anything in the general election and don't kid yourself you can get rid of them either. You have to wait till the next poll to cast your vote hope enough vote in a similar fashion that your chosen candidates party gets into power and then take whoever the leader of that party decides who is given what ministry and you have to put up with it till he or she decides differently or until the next election. the commission only gets to propose legislation which is either accepted or rejected by your elected representatives be they council members or MEPs all of whom are elected

[wrecklessrobbie]

Erm yeah very informative.
Am so pleased the EU is democratic.

However personally i never had a choice to vote and decide if i wanted to join the commen market.
As i was too young.
Now that we have morphed into the EU again without my consent i at last have a vote as to wether i will stay or leave.
It may not influence the outcome but i still have the chance to vote.

Now would i be right in thinking 330 000 more came to England last year than left.
180 000 if from EU countries.
As we are in the EU we cannot stop EU nationals entering this country.

To me this means 180 000 people taking English jobs or
180 000 people who can claim benefits if they dont find a job.
180 000 people who can use the NHS.
180 who if they have kids can send them to our schools. Not all of them will have kids i know.
180 000 who will need to live somewhere.
This was just one year.


How long can we keep absorbing these amounts of people.

Robbie

[10 inch Terror]

Erm yeah very informative.
Am so pleased the EU is democratic.

However personally i never had a choice to vote and decide if i wanted to join the commen market.
As i was too young.
Now that we have morphed into the EU again without my consent i at last have a vote as to wether i will stay or leave.
It may not influence the outcome but i still have the chance to vote.

Now would i be right in thinking 330 000 more came to England last year than left.
180 000 if from EU countries.
As we are in the EU we cannot stop EU nationals entering this country.

To me this means 180 000 people taking English jobs or
180 000 people who can claim benefits if they dont find a job.
180 000 people who can use the NHS.
180 who if they have kids can send them to our schools. Not all of them will have kids i know.
180 000 who will need to live somewhere.
This was just one year.


How long can we keep absorbing these amounts of people.

Robbie

Agree. I don't blame migrants coming here for a better life, it's a natural thing to want. As you said they need homes, schools, hospitals, doctors, etc etc. Where does it all end? I've read we need to build a city the size of Birmingham every year for the next 10, just to cope with the numbers here already. We are a tiny nation, and cannot cope with many more people. Immigration is a massive factor in many people's deciding vote ( mine included ), it's not my only reason for voting out, there are other reasons too.

[rosscla]

Out and you'll have to pay VAT and Import Duty on all them imported rust buckets ...

[Muttley McLadd]

Out and you'll have to pay VAT and Import Duty on all them imported rust buckets ...

Ironic really, as wasn't VAT introduced because of the EEC?

[rosscla]

Out and you'll have to pay VAT and Import Duty on all them imported rust buckets ...

Ironic really, as wasn't VAT introduced because of the EEC?

All them NOVAs will be worthless ...just sayin'

[dennis]

So you've imported your rust bucket and you want to upgrade it,well their not to keen on that sort of thing in Germany and if they get what they want from the EU (dominate) all the upgrades will stop,i don't think they have the classic seen in Europe like us and that would probably all go as well.

[coaster]

There all elected jonzo just not by you personally, you only get to vote for one candidate in one constituency yet every few years a government gets formed it's not magic they don't fall out of the sky. You don't decide who becomes chancellor of the exchequer yet one gets elected,same with Europe you get to vote for the people who get to vote for other people to fill positions. It's basic representative democracy,Jesus lads keep up you owe it to yourselves to make informed decisions from a reasonably educated position, appraise yourselves of the facts every now and then and don't believe everything you read in the tabloids or hear from a taxi driver. Drop the unelected bullshit and stop peddling it as if it was fact, the only ones who aren't elected somewhere along the line are civil servants just like your own native civil servants. You elect people to make decisions for you so you don't have to make decisions constantly, that's democracy.

Very well stated Diesel, it doesn't take much effort to check up on statements made by the Out campaign or the In campaign for that matter. My concern from the beginning has been that the issues involved are far too complex for the average voter to understand, that is why we listen to the wild statements from the out camp without questioning their authenticity or motives. The EU isn't perfect, no system is but we won't make it better by giving up and running away.