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Upgrade silent blocks need to change frame cones?

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:27 pm
by tippo88
Am rebuilding my Li3 125 and have upgraded the silentblocks from the small style to the longer and upgraded MB ones. I noticed in a Scootering article that you need to check the comparability of the engine cones and that the longer silentblocks need taller cones with a chamfer. Can't find any info about this in Stickies . Do I really need to change cones?
Photo of current cones attached.
Thanks!

TippiImageImageng


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Re: Upgrade silent blocks need to change frame cones?

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:23 pm
by Adam_Winstone
No... but your engine mounts will fail faster as the 'stop' position for the tightening of nuts on bolt is the difference. If you don't change the cones out then you'll stress the rubber in the new mounts and they will fail at some stage.

So, IMO, the answer is YES, rather than NO but you can use a mix and match, it just isn't good practice and leads to premature failure.

Adam

Re: Upgrade silent blocks need to change frame cones?

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:00 am
by tippo88
Adam,
Thanks! Will change them.
Cheers

Tippo


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Re: Upgrade silent blocks need to change frame cones?

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:16 am
by dave411
What do you change them to?

Re: Upgrade silent blocks need to change frame cones?

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:05 am
by rosscla
The type for the longer engine mounts ...

http://www.scooterrestorations.com/lamb ... -tv-sx-gp/

Re: Upgrade silent blocks need to change frame cones?

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:41 pm
by wrecklessrobbie
I have just dropped my engine into rayspeed for a strip and rebuild.
I was asking about lambretta offset cones.
The guys there advised me that they were an urban myth. The ts1 had been designed to run with normal cones by AF they said. The set up I was opting for 200 small block with 26 mm carb does not need offset cones.
Apparently if they are not fitted 100 % straight the engine would lean offset to the frame. He advised against ever using them.
I am having gp engine blocks fitted and buying a new engine bar. I did not realise that I will need new cones. I will ask him and buy some.

Robbie

Re: Upgrade silent blocks need to change frame cones?

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:42 pm
by Adam_Winstone
This wasn't a question about offset cones (to my understanding), rather it was about the 2 different types of standard Innocenti frame cones; early and late.

I do agree with what you're saying about offset cones though, however, sometimes they are a quick fix for some rear shock lengths, manifold choice, reed block choice (some need a packer), etc. I've fitted offset cones and have never found them in the same position when stripped after a few miles, even after trying to silicon these into position before fitting the motor to the frame.

Adam

Re: Upgrade silent blocks need to change frame cones?

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:59 pm
by wrecklessrobbie
Yes Adam
I know its a thread about cones and not offset cones.
Due to the thread I now realise that I will need new cones.
I just mentioned offset cones as a point of interest.

Robbie

Re: Upgrade silent blocks need to change frame cones?

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:50 pm
by Adam_Winstone
^... cool. My response wasn't meant to sound 'snotty' or challenging. Sorry if it did.

There is a lot of duff info around about offset cones so no problem raising it as an issue. I just didn't want to confuse the issue.

All good :)

Adam

Re: Upgrade silent blocks need to change frame cones?

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:07 pm
by dave411
What is the difference between the two?