That old chestnut of kitting a scoot and informing DVLA

[dapper]

Doing a series 2 up for a lad and I've fitted an MB195 Racetour kit. He's having to SORN it and they are asking for receipt for the kit. What do others do? I've advised him that its more important that he notifies his insurers of the upgrade in case of theft/accident etc.

[bristolmod]

difficult one......

1) he must tell his insurers- if he fails to do so and is involved in an incident, he will not be covered insurancewise. If its a small "bump" they are not going to investigate much. However, if its a large claim, they will make sure that the vehicle is 100% as per the Insurance proposal- if its not then they will consider the vehicle as not insured. They still have an obligation to 3rd parties, BUT not his own damage. Also, any payments made by the Ins coy to 3rd parties could be claimed back from the original proposer in the future. This may mean placing a "Charging Order" on his property so payment is claimed on sale.

He should tell DVLA as well. If he doesn't and happens to have an incident, the official record of the vehicle will be wrong (e.g. stated on V5C 125cc's and engine is in fact 200 cc's) IF his insurers then find out that the DVLA records are wrong (irrespective of the fact that the owner has divulged correctly on his Insurance proposal) then it wouldn't surprise me to find the Insurers refusing to pay claims.

If an Insurance company can get out of paying, it will.

You really need to be 100% accurate on both proposals and DVLA records.

And to those that think the Insurance Company won't investigate the engine size or if a kit is fitted, put yourself in their position:-

Do we pay out a huge sum for damage and serious injury, or do we pay for an engineers report on the vehicle first.....?

Not worth the risk IMO

Chris

[Daggs]

I see it differently to 'Bristolmod' (who is a good scootering friend) I agree it's vital to tell your insurer the true details of the scooter engine.
However, if i have an Li125 onto which i fit a kit. As far as i'm concerned the scooter is still an Li 125 because that's what the number on the frame says. The engine may also say Li125 and that remains the engine number even if i change the cc. It is not (IMO) necessary for DVLA to know the true engine size.
If you are riding as a learner? You are restricted to 125 and should obey that. Although that is a concern for your licence/DVLA not the logsheet for your scooter.

Just the way i see it...............

[bristolmod]

I think DVLA like to get involved due to any engine size increases which, on a normal vehicle, could affect the Road Tax payable.

However, on our "shopping trolly" type scooters, the vast majority are "free road tax" anyway, so this should not be an issue in theory.

However, we are dealing with Government Departments that like to tell us what do do............................

I feel me and Daggs agree on the last bit anyway

Chris

[YAMLAM]

Why are they asking to see a receipt if the lads declaring it on SORN ?
They only want to see a receipt if your changing CC.

[bristolmod]

"Doing a series 2 up for a lad and I've fitted an MB195 Racetour kit"

[dapper]

"Doing a series 2 up for a lad and I've fitted an MB195 Racetour kit"

Something wrong with that? It's a '61 Series 2 Li 150. I've already advised him to be honest with his insurer. Yes, he's having to Sorn it 'cus it's been off the road for a few months and the DVLA are on his case. He wanted something a bit faster than his bog standard 150 and his brass flywheel was fecked anyway, so it's gone electronic ignition, 42 MM Clubman, 26mm Delly carb. Engine has been built up months ago. Just waiting for all the spraying, etc to be done.

Question: If a kit was stamped by the maker with it's cc, would that satisfy the DVLA? Seems a simple answer to the original question.

[Doom Patrol]

I think Daggs's argument is very compelling. Mind you I haven't told them about that 185 kit I stuck on.

[lofty]

if you did the work mark, could you not provide a sort of receipt? not sure what are the DVLA's criteria for documentation..

i suppose the problem is that if you put together a scooter from bits you had had for years, and the engine size was now different to what was on the v5, how do you provide a receipt? you could have had the bits knocking around for ages, hence no receipt..

potential solutions mentioned here and thought up..
get someone to provide an 'engineers report'.. what does this consist of, and whats the definition of 'engineer'?
get your friendly scooter shop owner to give you a receipt for some 'engine work'..
get on your computer and create a receipt or engineers report (assuming it doesnt get verified, any one experience of such documents being checked out?) potentially dodgy, but you are only telling the truth..

I tend to think that the details on the v5 should match what the scooter is, for legal/insurance/completeness purposes, although I am sure there are hundreds of scooters registered as 125 when they are not and dont appear to have any issues (or at least any reported here or on other forums)..

[dapper]

get on your computer and create a receipt or engineers report (assuming it doesnt get verified, any one experience of such documents being checked out?) potentially dodgy, but you are only telling the truth..

Chris, I'm having a go with my "creative side" on producing an engineer's report on works carried out to the engine, and will post it up for criticism on completion, but it won't have the customary greasy smudges on it till I'm finished After all, I am an engineer by trade, and still have the parts that have been replaced, I'm just not a commercial business I can't be castigated for telling the truth, can I /