Scooterotica

Which fan works the most efficiently? the normal fin arangement or the 80s taffspeed plastic paddle fan arrangement?

How much air would each fan shift?
How much air is required, by say a ts1 /rb ?
Can you flow to much air? ie cool the barrel and head to much?
What would be the optimum fan / blade style
If the std. fan was the best, how could it be improve? (from a air flow / cooling perspective)
Thanks

basically.........we are on a looser here.............
not saying improvements cant be made ............but just that these also just are not good enough............
the real prob is ..........that we are all stuck with a 60,s design............which did at that time cope relativly well with cooling low revving 150,s............175,s
and as bores increased...........so did fin area decrease.on barrels ..........after all ,it had to,to fit under the same cowels...............
with the advent of more highly tuned/bigger bore/higher revving kits..............that were still designed to fit under the std cowel.............the over heating prob grew worse................
even though these were often made of alluminium ........and nikosil lined..............which helped somewhat to a point...........
the fact is .......that as bores increased................and as so did the performance/revs......................
the cooling fins on the barrells/heads should have done also..........by a huge amount............
this should have also needed much bigger cowels...............and also a bigger fan to force air cool
just compare yourself............the size and number of fins on your lambo barrel..............to a vespa p200 barrel...........
and also the size of the flywheel...............
and the cowel shape ..........
and also bear in mind that the vespa intakes its cooling air directly from outside.................and not as lambos...........from pre heated air under the panels/floor boards.................

jb tuning do a better fan which is machined to an indian flywheel and has similar fins to a vespa. plastic.

i dont fit the stone gaurd and trim the foot boards so the fan sucks outside air and trim the right hand side so the hot air has somewhere to go plus giving clearance to the exhaust shark fin bracket.

i have looked at the exhaust stub on a number of ocasions and wondered why it is not finned like on a brit bike and why the cowlings are not coupled to the head to extend the surface area and provide cooling from the cool air blowing on it.

there is plenty on the net about it, like this

http://www.moorefans.com/TMC_661P_.PDF

sean brady scooters wrote:basically.........we are on a looser here.............
not saying improvements cant be made ............but just that these also just are not good enough............
the real prob is ..........that we are all stuck with a 60,s design............which did at that time cope relativly well with cooling low revving 150,s............175,s
and as bores increased...........so did fin area decrease.on barrels ..........after all ,it had to,to fit under the same cowels...............
with the advent of more highly tuned/bigger bore/higher revving kits..............that were still designed to fit under the std cowel.............the over heating prob grew worse................
even though these were often made of alluminium ........and nikosil lined..............which helped somewhat to a point...........
the fact is .......that as bores increased................and as so did the performance/revs......................
the cooling fins on the barrells/heads should have done also..........by a huge amount............
this should have also needed much bigger cowels...............and also a bigger fan to force air cool
just compare yourself............the size and number of fins on your lambo barrel..............to a vespa p200 barrel...........
and also the size of the flywheel...............
and the cowel shape ..........
and also bear in mind that the vespa intakes its cooling air directly from outside.................and not as lambos...........from pre heated air under the panels/floor boards.................

I agree with all this, and in an ideal world we would have LC 2/4 strokes, six speed boxes etc.etc. but we are were we are, with a 50/60s design.
So with a hotter running engine a more efficient fan (ie pushing higher volumes of air through the cowl, should cool better? ..Yes?.. No?
If Yes, then If someone ( )was to produce a better designed fan this would be good yes?
I know not as sexy as a LC conversion, But not every one wants one of those.
Im not a fan designer (if thats what their called) but there must be one out there

believe me..............over the years i have looked into this prob many many times...................................

and as things are now with lammy flywheels/cowels.........its really difficult to get improvements...........
simply cos .........its a relativly small diameter fan...........that is already stressed out trying to provide enough cooling for a higher revving stage 4.200 ........never mind the more powerfull /higher revving bigger cc kits .........
again ........just compare a vespa fly wheel to a lambo one............
its nearly 2 inch bigger in size.........and a much better shape..........longer,more efficient fins..............
and the barrels that they have to cool..........ie a std p200........have a far greater fin area especially around the exhaust ports..................
there are obviosley things that you can do to improve lambo flywheels/fans/cowels etc.......................as we have done on the racer..........but........then again ..........its easy to improve on something so bad ..................
ultimatley..........if sticking with forced air cooling on a performance lambo...................they really do need bigger (larger diameter) flywheels/fans............coupled with bigger fins on barrels...............and the cowels to match..................

and also the cooling supply of air should be taken in from the exterior of panel work............................and NOT from under the panels and behind the floor board..........

i also think that the fan can become ineffective when at high revs ,am i correct?

sean brady scooters wrote:believe me..............over the years i have looked into this prob many many times...................................

and as things are now with lammy flywheels/cowels.........its really difficult to get improvements...........
simply cos .........its a relativly small diameter fan...........that is already stressed out trying to provide enough cooling for a higher revving stage 4.200 ........never mind the more powerfull /higher revving bigger cc kits .........
again ........just compare a vespa fly wheel to a lambo one............
its nearly 2 inch bigger in size.........and a much better shape..........longer,more efficient fins..............
and the barrels that they have to cool..........ie a std p200........have a far greater fin area especially around the exhaust ports..................
there are obviosley things that you can do to improve lambo flywheels/fans/cowels etc.......................as we have done on the racer..........but........then again ..........its easy to improve on something so bad ..................
ultimatley..........if sticking with forced air cooling on a performance lambo...................they really do need bigger (larger diameter) flywheels/fans............coupled with bigger fins on barrels...............and the cowels to match..................

and also the cooling supply of air should be taken in from the exterior of panel work............................and NOT from under the panels and behind the floor board..........

So what do you think sean about mine and jason frost`s ideas regarding inlet ducts, ducted straight to the cowling ...surely all that cold wind even at 30/40mph must be able to harness it to our advantage..

in a way thats true...............it depends on your gearing...................

the ducting is a great idea.........in some ways......as has been proven on racers................................no doubt about that.
the prob is...........if its a road scoot...........
and your stuck in slow moving traffic /jams etc...........or just going around town at low speed.................especially on a hot summers day..............not that we get many........

Im certain IF you put a lambretta through a wind tunnel every bit (or 97%) would hit the scoot and be thrown off..Surely it could be harnessed for cooling purposess ? we all know what its like in head wind :shocking: ..on a lammy getting pushed from pillar to post, engine dying under the strain..