Scooterotica

having tweaked n tampered my way through my ts1 225 through info and help found on this site,i think ive probably gone as far as i can go with my motor myself
currently
widened boost and inlet,raised and widened exhaust
max transfers without welding
centre plug head
lightened flywheel
v force reeds/flowed manifold
flowed race tour piston
agusto 7000 ingnition
35 mikuni
mild steel dev tour pipe
as ive said,im happy with it and im not contemplating changing things,but i do wonder how people get 30bhp+ out of their motors,some guy on here claimed 36bhp!now im not disputing that,just interested what lays beyond what ive done to my motor
thanx

jl 4

Thats a bloody good exhaust if it does what you claim!
I ran one for two years and apart from cracking all the time it never gave me
a lot more power!
yes it gave a power increase but haway man nee where near what has to be done to achieve 30 break!!
Some one could of went out and bought an exhaust on that patter alone and been very disapointed

A JL4 will give a rise in peak BHP over a Devtour, although you will lose some of your power 'spread'.

As far as 30+ bhp goes, have you had your scooter dynoed to ascertain how many BHP you have now, and how much more you want to gain?

The reason i ask about your current BHP level is this.......do you need any more?

Because in tuning, the first wedge of BHP is by far the easiest and cheapest to obtain, and the higher up the scale you go, the more work is involved, the more cotsly it becomes, and the more fragile your motor can get.

In terms of a road going scooter, you've got all the bolt on goodies, and the spec is really cool.....so why chase numbers? If you want to ride fatser, spend some money on tyres, brakes and suspension.....or get on the race track!

But......having said all that, if you are absolutely determined to get more BHP regardless, then on your existing engine you'll basically be looking at new exhaust systems and proffesional porting work. You've had all the easy gains, but the rest is not so easy. You might be looking at different crank/piston options, welding of casing transfers, cheeky little boost ports, finger ports from inlet side, engine blue-printing, different exhaust pipe options etc. A JL4 will give more peak BHP over the Devtour (marginally), but maybe a handmade exhaust will be even better? Jahspeed, B-race, Performance Tuning etc can tailor an exhaust to your engine spec for max power......but such items can be £350 - £550 depending who you ask, and teh cost of proffesional porting work......how long is a piece of string?

And of course, if you do pay the dosh out, and get the 30-35bhp figures that are out there, and you blow it up......your handmade and proffesionally ported items are not cheap to replace! So think carefully before leaping in.

I would suggest that you stick with what you have got, as its ample for road use......or, if you are determined to chase numbers, think latteraly, and maybe have a look at a completely new engine, rather that pushing the one you have got? I know that some new kits that are out soon are claiming to be 35bhp off the shelf!! Or of course there are the FOXHAT RB260cc thumpers that are sure to be at least 30+ bhp....we hope to have one on the dyno soon to clarify exact figures, but i'd estimate 30bhp to be a minimum figure, with oodles of torque. In fact, for the money you could now easily spend on chasing 30-35bhp on your existing engine (handmade exhaust, professional porting etc) i'd suggest that dosh could be a rather substantial deposit on a complete 250/260 engine from FOXHAT!

But these are all just suggetsions, food for thought and the ramblings of a mad-man......the choice is yours, and there's plenty of choice at that!

Let us know what you decide on and keeps us updated with pics!

craze01 wrote:Thats a bloody good exhaust if it does what you claim!
I ran one for two years and apart from cracking all the time it never gave me
a lot more power!
yes it gave a power increase but haway man nee where near what has to be done to achieve 30 break!!
Some one could of went out and bought an exhaust on that patter alone and been very disapointed

I think it depends what spec engine you have as to whether the JL4 will deliver what you want, i think Camel's spec would suit a JL4 and as he is chasing peak BHP, and the JL4 should provide a marginal increase over the Devtour, although he would lose bottom end torque and spread of power etc.

camel wrote:as ive said,im happy with it and im not contemplating changing things,but i do wonder how people get 30bhp+ out of their motors

I missed that little bit on my first post, so some of my ramblings will not apply to you, although may help others.

I think i've had too much coffee again!

thanks dan,as ive said im happy with my motor,i was just wondering wot the next steps were IF i wanted to attain those sort of bhp readings,and very true i dont know what ive got bhp wise at the mo,so it would be interesting to find out,i may be suprised.
what sort of output is your racer making now Dan?
i fully understand my bike isnt on the track,and ridability on the road is far more important to me,which is fine with my set up.

camel wrote:what sort of output is your racer making now Dan?

Not a lot by racing standards, but in a cut-down frame with Vega leggies it flies. Having said that....its little more than a fast-road tune like yours, as i'm just looking to get through my novices, we'll open it up after that.

Current spec is:

TS1225 cylinder 70mm bore
Porting work minimal: Standard inlet, widened boost port by a couple of mm, boost port height stays same. Cylinder transfers are standard, casing transfers widend to max without welding, no additional boost ports or finger ports. Exhaust port 190 degrees open, and only widened to 65% of bore!! (45.5mm)
Readspeed centre plug head - Comp ratio 11:1, squish area 40%, squish gap 1.1mm
MBD 70mm piston, no work done, 4 thou clearance and 0.5mm ring gap.
AF Race crank, 107mm rod, RB big end bearing, welded pin.
JL4 exhaust, re-welded by Sean into an up'n'over - cones remain same as standard.
Mikuni 38mm TMX (non-powerjet) - 360 main, 57 needle on middle clip.
MBD 'finger' inlet manifold matched to TMX carb
Yamaha Reedblock with Boyesen Reeds and stops
AF lightened flywheel, BGM stator with lighting coils removed, AFR CDI
Ign strobed @ 16 degrees

I dynoed that spec this week at 30bhp, but that was with a leaner carb setting....for safety reasons i richened it up to as above and it kicks out 28bhp and 20ft/lbs whilst running over rich, and i'm happy with that for my learner status riding level.

So as you can see......its a very basic spec, with hardly any porting work done, and we have loads of room for improvement next year....points of discussion and options to increase power might include:

60mm Race crank with 115/116mm rod and MB 30mm comp height piston: As well as the increased cc of the 60mm crank, and the additional smoothness of the longer rod there are some porting advantages we can implement if we use this comp height of piston (which i wont mention here ).
Other cylinder porting to include: 195 degree exhaust, 70% exhaust width, additional boost port work, finger boost port from inlet (as a couple of other bits just for us ).
RD reedblock to remove centre bridge on block, handmade exhaust (by a local exhaust fabrictaor that does work on GP bikes) to our own spec and measurements we provide, and some sort of variable ignition system (we are experimenting with various options now, ready for next year).

I would hope the above would see us move from late 20's to low/mid 30's with a very useable and broad powerband still, and nice torque curve. Anything after that is just chasing numbers and would be un-usable for me, top flight lads might be able to put 40bhp down on the tarmac......but i'm a long....LONG way from being able to do that on the track. It's all good fun though.

drunkmunkey6969 wrote:

camel wrote:what sort of output is your racer making now Dan?

Not a lot by racing standards, but in a cut-down frame with Vega leggies it flies. Having said that....its little more than a fast-road tune like yours, as i'm just looking to get through my novices, we'll open it up after that.

Current spec is:

TS1225 cylinder 70mm bore
Porting work minimal: Standard inlet, widened boost port by a couple of mm, boost port height stays same. Cylinder transfers are standard, casing transfers widend to max without welding, no additional boost ports or finger ports. Exhaust port 190 degrees open, and only widened to 65% of bore!! (45.5mm)
Readspeed centre plug head - Comp ratio 11:1, squish area 40%, squish gap 1.1mm
MBD 70mm piston, no work done, 4 thou clearance and 0.5mm ring gap.
AF Race crank, 107mm rod, RB big end bearing, welded pin.
JL4 exhaust, re-welded by Sean into an up'n'over - cones remain same as standard.
Mikuni 38mm TMX (non-powerjet) - 360 main, 57 needle on middle clip.
MBD 'finger' inlet manifold matched to TMX carb
Yamaha Reedblock with Boyesen Reeds and stops
AF lightened flywheel, BGM stator with lighting coils removed, AFR CDI
Ign strobed @ 16 degrees

I dynoed that spec this week at 30bhp, but that was with a leaner carb setting....for safety reasons i richened it up to as above and it kicks out 28bhp and 20ft/lbs whilst running over rich, and i'm happy with that for my learner status riding level.

So as you can see......its a very basic spec, with hardly any porting work done, and we have loads of room for improvement next year....points of discussion and options to increase power might include:

60mm Race crank with 115/116mm rod and MB 30mm comp height piston: As well as the increased cc of the 60mm crank, and the additional smoothness of the longer rod there are some porting advantages we can implement if we use this comp height of piston (which i wont mention here ).
Other cylinder porting to include: 195 degree exhaust, 70% exhaust width, additional boost port work, finger boost port from inlet (as a couple of other bits just for us ).
RD reedblock to remove centre bridge on block, handmade exhaust (by a local exhaust fabrictaor that does work on GP bikes) to our own spec and measurements we provide, and some sort of variable ignition system (we are experimenting with various options now, ready for next year).

I would hope the above would see us move from late 20's to low/mid 30's with a very useable and broad powerband still, and nice torque curve. Anything after that is just chasing numbers and would be un-usable for me, top flight lads might be able to put 40bhp down on the tarmac......but i'm a long....LONG way from being able to do that on the track. It's all good fun though.

Thats nearly the same as I run. but with a 32mm dellorto flat slide the crank is running a 110 rod and the exhaust is a taffspeed pipe and the compression on mine is 11.2-1 Readspeed head center plug, mine makes less peak power but with a wide power band...this is one of three TS1's that I run...but the rest of the specs are almost identicle...

"Not very much by racing standards" . . . . . . . . it's pretty fast though! One of the fastest scooters in BSSO racing has (according to it's rider) "not much over 24/25 bhp but it pulls from ground zero and has a hell of a lot of torque"