Scooterotica

Probably a simple question to answer but i have a batterless series 3, with a three pole regulator, i have purchased a new regulator5 pole and battery to run the pathfinders, could some one tell me if i simply replace the three pole regulator with the 5 pole and reconnect the battery or do i need to change stator etc. i have a wiring diagram which i have used to install but dont know whether i can replace or need to install the 5 pole regulator seperately but then i would have two and no way of charging the battery? Any help appreciated

Not sure exactly what sort of regulator you have but if it's a 3 pin regulator a bit like this:



You can simply replace it with a similar 5 pin regulator and take a wire from the dc output to trickle charge the battery.

The 3 pin regulator supplies regulated 12v AC output (we are talking about a 12v system aren't we?)
The 5 pin regulator supplies regulated 12v AC output and a 12v DC trickle charge output.

Be aware that the 12v DC output from the regulator won't keep the battery fully charged if you do a lot of running with the pathfinders on, it's only a trickle charge.

Thats exactly what i have, thanks for the advice

Minority wrote:Not sure exactly what sort of regulator you have but if it's a 3 pin regulator a bit like this:



You can simply replace it with a similar 5 pin regulator and take a wire from the dc output to trickle charge the battery.

The 3 pin regulator supplies regulated 12v AC output (we are talking about a 12v system aren't we?)
The 5 pin regulator supplies regulated 12v AC output and a 12v DC trickle charge output.

Be aware that the 12v DC output from the regulator won't keep the battery fully charged if you do a lot of running with the pathfinders on, it's only a trickle charge.

It"s far better to covert your lighting from ac to dc

5 pin vespa - type regulator rectifiers ~ The lighting - horn circuit remains half wave ac
Depending on the engine speed for the power - output
The extra + pin a dc output ~ IS ONLY a low power supply " A Trickle Charge "

There is good information on the Scooterotica forums to do this easy conversion

Pathfinders will deplete your battery very quickly with this type of regulator as it's only a trickle charge, Pathfinders use a lot of power, the only way to power them is to do the full DC conversion. Pathfinders was what led me to doing the full DC conversion in the first place and putting up on here for all to see

soulsurfer wrote:Pathfinders will deplete your battery very quickly with this type of regulator as it's only a trickle charge, Pathfinders use a lot of power, the only way to power them is to do the full DC conversion. Pathfinders was what led me to doing the full DC conversion in the first place and putting up on here for all to see

I have a pathfinders fitted(as you know) but even with 12v DC conversion using a Wassel unit the lights dim after 30 minutes or so. I've had to fit LED bulbs but theses are useless in the dark. How were the original Pathfinders powered?
I'm not sure if I need a new battery?

vRSG60 wrote: I have a pathfinders fitted(as you know) but even with 12v DC conversion using a Wassel unit the lights dim after 30 minutes or so. I've had to fit LED bulbs but theses are useless in the dark. How were the original Pathfinders powered?
I'm not sure if I need a new battery?

I'm fairly sure that the originals were powered from a 12V battery, with a rewired stator/rectifier/Zener diode setup for charging. The rewired stator had the original battery charging coils removed, and replaced by a second pair of lighting coils. All 4 lighting coils were wired in series, the earth wire from the coils to the stator was disconnected from earth, and the two ends of the lighting output were fed to a full wave rectifier. Just like a current day 12V conversion, but without electronic ignition, and today a Wassel type unit would replace the rectifier/Zener combination. No extra power to run the Pathfinders, though

Steve J wrote: The rewired stator had the original battery charging coils removed, and replaced by a second pair of lighting coils. All 4 lighting coils were wired in series, the earth wire from the coils to the stator was disconnected from earth, and the two ends of the lighting output were fed to a full wave rectifier.

The extra pair of coils were wired in parallel for extra power. As they used one fog and one spot, there is never an occasion where both would be needed, so only one could be switched on at a time.

firekdp wrote:

Steve J wrote: The rewired stator had the original battery charging coils removed, and replaced by a second pair of lighting coils. All 4 lighting coils were wired in series, the earth wire from the coils to the stator was disconnected from earth, and the two ends of the lighting output were fed to a full wave rectifier.

The extra pair of coils were wired in parallel for extra power. As they used one fog and one spot, there is never an occasion where both would be needed, so only one could be switched on at a time.

Are you absolutely sure about the wiring?? I seem to remember an article on the 'S' Types with two Pathfinder lights, describing a battery, rectifier and 12V 75Watt Zener setup, which would be indicative of rewiring the stator for 12 Volt operation. I don't see how wiring in parallel gives any extra power over wiring in series - the pair of lighting coils (on AC direct lighting operation) were designed to give about 28 Watts at 6 Volts, i.e. about 4.5 Amps. Wiring an extra pair in parallel would double the AC power output to 56 Watts (about 9A), but still at 6 Volts. I know that the open-circuit voltage of the 6 Volt coils will rise to above 12 Volts, and there have been attempts to provide a cheap 12 Volt system from a 6 Volt 6-pole stator without changing any coils or removing the flywheel, but doubling up the lighting coils and connecting in series is the logical way to go. That's exactly what Innocenti did with the 12 Volt LDA (AVV) around 1955 - two enlarged lighting coils connected in series and DC ignition.

You're right that they were either fog or spot, as they were wired up through an extra Li handlebar lighting switch, which used the two positions usually used for switching on sidelights and main lights to switch on spot or fog. This was in addition to the normal lighting controlled through the keyswitch.

Steve J wrote:

firekdp wrote:Are you absolutely sure about the wiring?? I seem to remember an article on the 'S' Types with two Pathfinder lights, describing a battery, rectifier and 12V 75Watt Zener setup,

100% sure.

I have the magazine containing the article you mention but most lambretta manuals will show the Lucas conversion wiring.
I know about the LDA system but not that familiar with the 4 pole coils so don't know why they went down that route. I also wonder why they never made a 12V stator/conversion for any of the later models.