Clutch Drag

[mac]

Anyone got any ideas on this?

Trying to sort a rally 200 for a mate, he's had a problem with the clutch dragging and it's been looked at by a vespa expert twice who said they can't fix it, when I stripped it the plunger and pressure plate were worn and the plates burnt and crank knacked (but that's another story) replaced clutch corks and steels new springs, new shim, plunger, pressure plate and actuating arm and it still drags, if I adjust the cable any more you can't kickstart it.

Checked to make sure the clutch centre is higher, all the plates move freely etc. it's got a small shim on top under the clutch on top of the larger spacer washer, which I think are used when you fit a cosa clutch and are supposed to help with clutch drag

Running out of ideas on what else to try other than getting a new complete clutch.

[GLscoot]

Mac
Is the clutch cage ok. Have you checked the notches are not catching the cork plates. Is the brass plunger the correct one or even the clutch cover. It sounds like there's pressure on the plate even before the cable is pulled, hence when you tighten the cable it's putting pressure on the plate. If you don't get any more help I know the VCB site there has been two or three Rally's restored on there.
Gary

[mac]

Hi Gary,

It's all nice and smooth no notches or burrs and everything moves easy.
It's the same with the original and new brass plunger, couldn't say about the cover as it's the one that came on the scooter when he got it years ago, what's the difference between the Rally and other ones?

On the cable side I take the slack out the arm tighten it up then adjust it to get the lever right, but I've also tried tightening it up so you can just get the kickstart to bite and the clutch still drags

As a update I tried it without the extra small shim tonight and it's the same, start it up run up and down the drive to check the gears change ok stop to put it back on the ramp and it's pulling forward.

[GLscoot]

I'm not familiar with the rally, so don't know if the clutch cover is the same as the P range. I know the GS150 has a different cover and a longer brass plunger. So was just putting that forward as a problem. What's the resistance on the clutch lever like?
Gary

[mac]

If I set by the normally by the cable it feels fine, When I tighten it up to try and stop the drag it's way to stiff and heavy if that makes sense.

[tony]

hi mate,
Now I am not a master of lardy clutches and its been a while since I worked on one... anyway. I will try to help if you want.
By the sound of it you do not have enough clearance in the clutch. This can be caused by simply not enough clearance in the plates when the lever is pulled as the plates maybe too thick (steels and/or corks) or what is happening is either the springs are coil binding before the plates can free or something else is stopping the clutch compressing enough to give you the clearance you need.

Try this as a temporary measure... remove one of the friction plates, leaving two steels together and try.

[vader]

New to this forum... Hi Mac... do you happen to know how thick the spacer and the shim are together? (you are fitting a cosa clutch right?) (sorry if I misunderstood)
I had problems in that area with different cosa clutches, and ended up using two different spacers (of different thicknesses) on different bikes. It can be touchy and you need to get that space right for proper separation.
See if your combined thickness is around 3.5mm
Cheers

[mac]

Hi Tony,

I'll give that a try, when using the clutch compressor with one complete turn of the nut the plates are seperated.

Vader,

It's a standard 3 plate clutch, the spacer washer is approx 3.2mm, the thin shim is .6mm and the clearance using a straight edge on the clutch centre is .5mm

[mac]

hi mate,
Now I am not a master of lardy clutches and its been a while since I worked on one... anyway. I will try to help if you want.
By the sound of it you do not have enough clearance in the clutch. This can be caused by simply not enough clearance in the plates when the lever is pulled as the plates maybe too thick (steels and/or corks) or what is happening is either the springs are coil binding before the plates can free or something else is stopping the clutch compressing enough to give you the clearance you need.

Try this as a temporary measure... remove one of the friction plates, leaving two steels together and try.

Tried this today and it worked, now the question is what size should the plates be when measured together?

The new one in it is 11.7mm the old one was 12.19 and a old knackered one 11.9

The basket measures 20.65mm from the retaining spring to the bottom a old one I found measured 20.38mm

Using the compressor starting at finger tight then measuring at 1/2 turn .71mm, 1 turn 1.49mm, 1 1/2 turns 2.14mm, 2 turns 2.87mm, then it bottoms out 2 1/3rd turns measuring 3.43mm

How much clearance should there be when fully compressed

[tony]

Hi mac
3.43 mm ...Thats a fair amount of clearance in my mind.. (just asking is this a 3 or 4 plate clutch? And is it cork?) also does the dragging get worse as the clutch gets used?

Anyway..My next step would be to take all the plates out and check that everything is 100% flat.
I dont use cork plates anymore due to the amount they can swell. A solution here may be to use some carbon type plates.. you may need some more spring pressure. But you can get away with very little clearance with this type of plate.I think newfren make a 'race evo' green type carbon plate for the rally. Worth a look mate if all else fails.