Mugello 225 or Casa 210?

[cezeta]

yes it will amigo, old exhausts work on the rt and new exhausts also work on the old barrel.

you cant catch them out you know.

THIS IS THE FINAL SOLUTION

[ArmandTanzarian]

yes it will amigo, old exhausts work on the rt and new exhausts also work on the old barrel.

you cant catch them out you know.

THIS IS THE FINAL SOLUTION

It certainly sounds like the last word in torquey tourers but your earlier sums don't quite add up. You've quoted the RT at £500 its actually £615. A Mugello is £250 cheaper and a Rapido is £400 cheaper (although you need a cylinder head). That'll pay for a decent tuner to do his thing and still leave a big bag of change. I'd only be running a big bore and TM24 carb so the gains in power will come at a very high price.

I'm struggling to justify that amount of money no matter how well made it is. (I still want one though!)

[cezeta]

sorry, im vat registerd so tend to look at the non vat prices

its not just about saving 200 pound, if i wanted to save money i would ride a vespa.....no i ride a bottomless pit and to make it more painfull a few bottomless pits

im quite lucky in that ive only ever broken down once on a lambretta, caused by a head gasket that i could have prevented if i had not been so lazy and re torqued the head at least once in 12 years of use. i hate breaking down so that engine has been repaired now and mb did me a recessed head so i can continue being lazy.

that was on my ts1 which is now an rt ts1 complete with rt crank, piston, head and re tuned to rt spec.

thats all very nice but the ts1 is not the be all and end all of engines. infact if im not in the mood it can be a pain in the ass. Hence the lazy mugello.

but as i largly ride scooters overseas i really want 100% reliability. the mugello and casa as we have all accepted are just not aimed at what im after and what everyone i ride with expects in the way of performance. mainly rapido 230/240s or ts1s. or to credit the vespa, fast smallframes or ported p2s which will sit at 70 all day long.

so yes i agree the rapido is a good kit, can be fast and reliable and is good value. however my personal preferance is not an iron bore. the reasons are that nicasil kits last for ever. i have always rode enduro bikes and played at racing, thrashed everything and never really looked after them properly. ive never had to do a rebore, they just dont need it or rings. ive done one set of rings in my life and im 41 years old. im not even sure they were needed but i had a stuck power valve so the whole top end was serviced.

so that brings me back to the rt, no head gasket, ali so cools, nicasil lined so fit and forget, forged wiseco piston that i would expect in an enduro bike, light piston combined with a balanced hpc alpha crank, unleaded freindly, ecenomical aparently, powerfull aparently plus its off the shelf so conforms to my iso 9002 key performance indicators criteria( )

there is no alternative for me. the mugello is now for sale complete with 25mm delly and either a af clubman or a jl3 curly. im buying an rt kit.

[Ian Hepworth]

yes it will amigo, old exhausts work on the rt and new exhausts also work on the old barrel.

you cant catch them out you know.

THIS IS THE FINAL SOLUTION

It certainly sounds like the last word in torquey tourers but your earlier sums don't quite add up. You've quoted the RT at £500 its actually £615. A Mugello is £250 cheaper and a Rapido is £400 cheaper (although you need a cylinder head). That'll pay for a decent tuner to do his thing and still leave a big bag of change. I'd only be running a big bore and TM24 carb so the gains in power will come at a very high price.

I'm struggling to justify that amount of money no matter how well made it is. (I still want one though!)

Look at it like this, the kit is not just made for power, its made to improve fuel economy as well. We have customers telling us up to 80mpg and GPSd at 80mph, doesn't take long to get your money back in this day and age of rip off fuel prices!

[ArmandTanzarian]

cezetta - I agree with just about every word you've written but an RT with an Alpha crank is more than I can begin to afford. To put it in perspective, Andy Francis advertises complete TS1 engines with exhaust and carb for less than two grand.

I'm after a really good rally-going tourer and so I was considering a mugello or Rapido with a 60mm crank and then take it all along to JB tuning. The mugello does indeed work out more expensive than an RT. 365 for the kit + 165 for the crank + £150 (wild guess at tuning cost) = more than an RT if it still works as well with a standard crankshaft meaning I can keep the newish one I already have.

I'm going to have to do some serious sums and annoy people on the phone to see if the "out-of-the-box" RT is worth it.


How much do you want for the Mugello? I've heard that they're rubbish so they're not worth much

[cezeta]

the mugello is probably the better kit out of the bunch........

rob d from lcg has a mec 60mm brand new crank for sale, give him a shout and save a few pound.

the mugello with the 60mm crank will hopefully be up the arse of the rt so i dont blame you for your decision.

im going to the dyno on wednesday to see what a b race pipe and 24mm mikuni does to it. its way better like this, the mikuni is a good crisp carb. even has a differant tone to the delly.

ill at least be able to show its true power, first run was 12.5 bhp with 25mm dellorto through the airbox and clubman. thats still 4 1/2 bhp more than an sx so you can see that some people will be happy

chaulky blames the standard filter on its low power. with the mikuni it would not start with the filter on, too lean with the filter and hose off but near perfect with just the hose on. these tuners go about it the wrong way....just take bits of the air intake off untill its ok

[eibargum]

cezeta, dont you think you might be better trying a bigger carb as well, say 30mm, before you bin it, as i said earlyer ive a mate with a very rideable 19bhp 225 mugg and he,s using a 35mm TMX with a fillter on .

[ArmandTanzarian]

cezeta, dont you think you might be better trying a bigger carb as well, say 30mm, before you bin it, as i said earlyer ive a mate with a very rideable 19bhp 225 mugg and he,s using a 35mm TMX with a fillter on .

Only my opinion but if you go for a big carb etc then you're getting away from the original concept and might as well get a TS1 or something similar. Surely the point is that it's more or less standard looking, doesn't gulp fuel and is as reliable as it can possibly be. If its performance you're after then a reed valve kit is surely a better bet.

[rog60]

Just to balance the argument (or not), I have a Casa 210 with Delly 28mm/remote sponge air filter/Indian clubman fitted on an Indian Gp200, SX150 gears,19/47 sprockets.
Yes, there is an issue with the machining on the Asso piston causing some rattling and I am assured that Casa are addressing this. I have yet to finalize the carb settings (been on holiday) but the kit is a complete kit (inc head) and the inlet is a small block inlet port size and this may be limiting it's maximum rev range (6500 by my estimation). But overall, as I am not looking for 80mph or anything like it(cruises at present at about 55-60mph uphill and level roads), I am fairly satisfied.
The kit seems to have a lot of grunt from fairly low rpm and this seems to be enabling the use of taller gearbox ratios, I believe I could lower the final drive ratio as the current one is easily managed by the kit.
I am not singing it's praises just yet but it seems to be suitable for what I need.
Hope that adds to the mix as someone who is actually using one (Don't think there are many of us)

[cezeta]

thanks rog60, from an rt210 with the same set up i would imagine you would have an easy 70mph scooter. not everyone needs this but its good to know what will do what to save disapointment.

my mugello hits 70mph....just.........with over revs and revs out at 6500 and literally runs out of revs with a jolt. if it revved to 7000-7500 then it would be a genuine 70mph scooter