Dellorto PHBH

[Special X]

Camlams recomended jetting for 186/200 Mugello with an ancillotti and PHBH 30mm

45 slide (OK)
X2 needle (way too rich for an AV atomiser X7 would be better)
AV266
105 Main (wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrbang) needs a 120 ish
53 idle
50 starter

[nelson pk]

Camlams recomended jetting for 186/200 Mugello with an ancillotti and PHBH 30mm

45 slide (OK)
X2 needle (way too rich for an AV atomiser X7 would be better)
AV266
105 Main (wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrbang) needs a 120 ish
53 idle
50 starter

This is where we are going to disagree a bit
It's exactly what i'm talking about. Carb jetting is not as "matter of fact" as you seem to think.
I agree in the fact that if you were using an X7 needle and AV266 atomiser or X13 and AV264 the main jet would need to be increased, however if you are using a richer atomiser/needle setting the main can be dropped, sometimes significantly and that is fact!
If you dont believe me get an EGT and try it. Put in an X2 and AV266 and 120 main jet and
it will be rich all the way up to full throttle. Keep the X2 and AV266 and come down slowly( (and safely) on the main and you will find the spluttering goes away and you have a much cooler mid range and your main 3/4 to full throttle setting will be cool enough too!
However..DO NOT TRY THIS WTHOUT EGT or DYNO or some other fast, accurate reading.
A real classic example of this, is AF Rayspeed used to recomend TS1's running a 30mm delly to use an AV266/X7 with a 140-155 main jet.....
You would need a main jet that size if your running an AV266/X7 but it will be still lean in the mid.
Well, some may just about get away with this if they spend their time at full throttle but for the majority it's gonna be way too lean in the mid range!
Most dyno's, tuners will end up with something close to AV268 or AV266 with X2 and a 130 or 135 main jet! (see the BIG difference in mains used because of the richer mid range).
Another example is my 225 Monza. If i put in an AV266/X7 i can run up to a 155 main and it will still pull well! But my EGT is telling me that my mid range is so lean i'm gonna go pop if i hold it there for 10 miles or so.]
If i put in an AV268 and X2 it will not run at full throttle with a 155 in (way too rich), and i end up going down to about a 132 and the mid is still cool and so is full throttle.
The moral is that if you use a rich atomiser/needle combo you will end up running a main that is a lot smaller than if you ran a leaner atomiser/needle combo.
The main jet is important but do not sacrifice your mid range to run a larger main.

My other point about the way an exhaust hugely effects jetting is also reflected as the above setting is for an ancilotti exhaust.
For an expansion they recommend the atomiser to go to AV268 and main to go to 115.
I know for a fact that a clubman style exhaust requires a smaller main than an expansion just by looking at dyno sheets that people have posted when running clubmans compared to expansions.

[soosh]

This all sound complicated,dont try this without an egt or dyno?

[nelson pk]

This all sound complicated,dont try this without an egt or dyno?

Sorry, what i mean is having a dyno session not building your own dyno!
What i generally mean is you can't beat having some indication in real time while experimenting with jetting.
EGT, detonation sensor or if you have a good dyno operator near where you live.

To be completely honest i wouldn't bother to try and jet a tuned motor without some sort of real time indicator anymore as the chances are you'll feck it up in the long run.

I firmly believe that a lot of engine problems where "it ran fine for 6000 miles and then suddenly seized with no air leaks" are motors that have not been jetted with enough safety margin and conditions like low octane fuel, air density etc on that one day have caused the engine to finally run too hot.

[Bert Oni]

Camlams recomended jetting for 186/200 Mugello with an ancillotti and PHBH 30mm

45 slide (OK)
X2 needle (way too rich for an AV atomiser X7 would be better)
AV266
105 Main (wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrbang) needs a 120 ish
53 idle
50 starter

This is where we are going to disagree a bit
It's exactly what i'm talking about. Carb jetting is not as "matter of fact" as you seem to think.
I agree in the fact that if you were using an X7 needle and AV266 atomiser or X13 and AV264 the main jet would need to be increased, however if you are using a richer atomiser/needle setting the main can be dropped, sometimes significantly and that is fact!
If you dont believe me get an EGT and try it. Put in an X2 and AV266 and 120 main jet and
it will be rich all the way up to full throttle. Keep the X2 and AV266 and come down slowly( (and safely) on the main and you will find the spluttering goes away and you have a much cooler mid range and your main 3/4 to full throttle setting will be cool enough too!
However..DO NOT TRY THIS WTHOUT EGT or DYNO or some other fast, accurate reading.
A real classic example of this, is AF Rayspeed used to recomend TS1's running a 30mm delly to use an AV266/X7 with a 140-155 main jet.....
You would need a main jet that size if your running an AV266/X7 but it will be still lean in the mid.
Well, some may just about get away with this if they spend their time at full throttle but for the majority it's gonna be way too lean in the mid range!
Most dyno's, tuners will end up with something close to AV268 or AV266 with X2 and a 130 or 135 main jet! (see the BIG difference in mains used because of the richer mid range).
Another example is my 225 Monza. If i put in an AV266/X7 i can run up to a 155 main and it will still pull well! But my EGT is telling me that my mid range is so lean i'm gonna go pop if i hold it there for 10 miles or so.]
If i put in an AV268 and X2 it will not run at full throttle with a 155 in (way too rich), and i end up going down to about a 132 and the mid is still cool and so is full throttle.
The moral is that if you use a rich atomiser/needle combo you will end up running a main that is a lot smaller than if you ran a leaner atomiser/needle combo.
The main jet is important but do not sacrifice your mid range to run a larger main.

My other point about the way an exhaust hugely effects jetting is also reflected as the above setting is for an ancilotti exhaust.
For an expansion they recommend the atomiser to go to AV268 and main to go to 115.
I know for a fact that a clubman style exhaust requires a smaller main than an expansion just by looking at dyno sheets that people have posted when running clubmans compared to expansions.

Interesting stuff their Nelson, my interest is 'piqued' (see what I did there?). I've holed pistons using both my 30mm PHBH Delly & 34mm Mk2 Amal using AF Rayspeed's & CamLam's jetting recommendations on my TS1225 with AF NK road pipe whilst only 'cruising'. I generally ride conservatively, so for ease of use I'll give you my 1/4 to 3/4 throttle settings only.

Delly: AV266, x7 (2nd clip from top), 150 main, mixture 3.5 turns out. Would you go for AV268, X2 (2nd clip from top??), 130-135 main?
Amal (power jet blocked off): Atomiser 107, Needle 2D1, 350 main, mixture 1 turn out. Have you (or anyone else) got a 'safer' Amal atomiser/needle set up?

You may add the obligatory disclaimer in your reply , I'll definately not hold anyone culpable should I heed any advice given............now where's that shylock ambulance chasers number? .

[Muttley McLadd]

Have you thought about putting all your pearls of wisdom in a book?

This all sound complicated,dont try this without an egt or dyno?

Sorry, what i mean is having a dyno session not building your own dyno!
What i generally mean is you can't beat having some indication in real time while experimenting with jetting.
EGT, detonation sensor or if you have a good dyno operator near where you live.

To be completely honest i wouldn't bother to try and jet a tuned motor without some sort of real time indicator anymore as the chances are you'll feck it up in the long run.

I firmly believe that a lot of engine problems where "it ran fine for 6000 miles and then suddenly seized with no air leaks" are motors that have not been jetted with enough safety margin and conditions like low octane fuel, air density etc on that one day have caused the engine to finally run too hot.

[nelson pk]

Have you thought about putting all your pearls of wisdom in a book?

This all sound complicated,dont try this without an egt or dyno?

Sorry, what i mean is having a dyno session not building your own dyno!
What i generally mean is you can't beat having some indication in real time while experimenting with jetting.
EGT, detonation sensor or if you have a good dyno operator near where you live.

To be completely honest i wouldn't bother to try and jet a tuned motor without some sort of real time indicator anymore as the chances are you'll feck it up in the long run.

I firmly believe that a lot of engine problems where "it ran fine for 6000 miles and then suddenly seized with no air leaks" are motors that have not been jetted with enough safety margin and conditions like low octane fuel, air density etc on that one day have caused the engine to finally run too hot.

Really, i thought you didn't like tuning books and the people that read them if i remember correctly.

[nelson pk]

Camlams recomended jetting for 186/200 Mugello with an ancillotti and PHBH 30mm

45 slide (OK)
X2 needle (way too rich for an AV atomiser X7 would be better)
AV266
105 Main (wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrbang) needs a 120 ish
53 idle
50 starter

This is where we are going to disagree a bit
It's exactly what i'm talking about. Carb jetting is not as "matter of fact" as you seem to think.
I agree in the fact that if you were using an X7 needle and AV266 atomiser or X13 and AV264 the main jet would need to be increased, however if you are using a richer atomiser/needle setting the main can be dropped, sometimes significantly and that is fact!
If you dont believe me get an EGT and try it. Put in an X2 and AV266 and 120 main jet and
it will be rich all the way up to full throttle. Keep the X2 and AV266 and come down slowly( (and safely) on the main and you will find the spluttering goes away and you have a much cooler mid range and your main 3/4 to full throttle setting will be cool enough too!
However..DO NOT TRY THIS WTHOUT EGT or DYNO or some other fast, accurate reading.
A real classic example of this, is AF Rayspeed used to recomend TS1's running a 30mm delly to use an AV266/X7 with a 140-155 main jet.....
You would need a main jet that size if your running an AV266/X7 but it will be still lean in the mid.
Well, some may just about get away with this if they spend their time at full throttle but for the majority it's gonna be way too lean in the mid range!
Most dyno's, tuners will end up with something close to AV268 or AV266 with X2 and a 130 or 135 main jet! (see the BIG difference in mains used because of the richer mid range).
Another example is my 225 Monza. If i put in an AV266/X7 i can run up to a 155 main and it will still pull well! But my EGT is telling me that my mid range is so lean i'm gonna go pop if i hold it there for 10 miles or so.]
If i put in an AV268 and X2 it will not run at full throttle with a 155 in (way too rich), and i end up going down to about a 132 and the mid is still cool and so is full throttle.
The moral is that if you use a rich atomiser/needle combo you will end up running a main that is a lot smaller than if you ran a leaner atomiser/needle combo.
The main jet is important but do not sacrifice your mid range to run a larger main.

My other point about the way an exhaust hugely effects jetting is also reflected as the above setting is for an ancilotti exhaust.
For an expansion they recommend the atomiser to go to AV268 and main to go to 115.
I know for a fact that a clubman style exhaust requires a smaller main than an expansion just by looking at dyno sheets that people have posted when running clubmans compared to expansions.

Interesting stuff their Nelson, my interest is 'piqued' (see what I did there?). I've holed pistons using both my 30mm PHBH Delly & 34mm Mk2 Amal using AF Rayspeed's & CamLam's jetting recommendations on my TS1225 with AF NK road pipe whilst only 'cruising'. I generally ride conservatively, so for ease of use I'll give you my 1/4 to 3/4 throttle settings only.

Delly: AV266, x7 (2nd clip from top), 150 main, mixture 3.5 turns out. Would you go for AV268, X2 (2nd clip from top??), 130-135 main?
Amal (power jet blocked off): Atomiser 107, Needle 2D1, 350 main, mixture 1 turn out. Have you (or anyone else) got a 'safer' Amal atomiser/needle set up?

You may add the obligatory disclaimer in your reply , I'll definately not hold anyone culpable should I heed any advice given............now where's that shylock ambulance chasers number? .

Hi
Dont really know Amals to be honest but for the delly, if it was my TS1 225 i would start with AV268 and X2 (top clip/1.5 or second clip )needle with a main about 135 and a 45/50 slide.
Basically pull the choke out when your doing reasonable revs in the mid range (1/4 to 1/2 throttle) and see if it causes it to splutter or "hold up".
If it doesn't i would richen it up to be safe.

You have changed your float inlet valve on the delly to a 300 or 350 haven't you?
If not, i would do so.

[soosh]

I'm sure I used a 109 atomiser on the 34 amal. Not run it for yrs but I'm sure that's what it was on.
Get a new needle as they wear too.

[Muttley McLadd]

Really, i thought you didn't like tuning books and the people that read them if i remember correctly.

I wasn't thinking of reading it. But I'm nearly out of scooter magazines, and they're very useful to use with masking tape when spraying.