bristolmod wrote:the exhaust is a home made one. We used to call them "outriggers" back in the day- they made a fantastic noise but killed the performance.
I used an Indian "42mm "Bigbore" and blocked off the standard exhaust at the rear. I then grafted in an original outlet pipe and chrome 'trumpet" to form my own version of the outrigger- its still got that sound, but performance wise its not too compromised..
I started in scootering way back in 1968- I've had many many Lambretas over the years- this one will be my last. Thats why if I can get the right offer it will go with all the spares; tools and books etc.
Chris
we used to buy our exhausts systems complete with chrome pipe back in the 60's I don't think you could buy one without a chrome tailpipe.
Its a nice job I'll keep an eye out for a suitable tailpipe as the bigbore tailpipe looks really naff.
I remember I used to work on my Li150 quite a bit but I don't think I had any real understanding back then. No internet or books... you had to rely totally on 'suck it and see'
I'm very sorry to hear that you've decided to pack in scootering Chris . I cannot imagine a day when I don't own a Lambretta and an old classic motorbike to tinker with in the shed even if I cannot ride them anymore. To be honest i think I get more enjoyment now from tinkering and researching than I do from riding and thats Kinda sad. I guess this is just nostalgia on my part as unlike you, until recently I have not had a scooter for the past 50 years
bristolmod wrote:the exhaust is a home made one. We used to call them "outriggers" back in the day- they made a fantastic noise but killed the performance.
I used an Indian "42mm "Bigbore" and blocked off the standard exhaust at the rear. I then grafted in an original outlet pipe and chrome 'trumpet" to form my own version of the outrigger- its still got that sound, but performance wise its not too compromised..
I started in scootering way back in 1968- I've had many many Lambretas over the years- this one will be my last. Thats why if I can get the right offer it will go with all the spares; tools and books etc.
Chris
To be honest i think I get more enjoyment now from tinkering and researching than I do from riding and thats Kinda sad.
I've read this whole post three times now, and like many am perplexed. Bear with me on this please.
First comment I'd like to make is that 3x wheeler 175 cylinders DO come in small block stud spacing. BUT, you would not choose to use one on any "series" scoot as the inlet is "facing" the wrong side and although you'd be able to fit an inlet manifold, at the gasket face the direction would change by nearly 90*. (Fli175 anyone?)
If you're attempting to achieve the "experience" of a TV175 / engine then you won't achieve it by either reboring ANY 150 cylinder to 175 and lobbing a piston at it, or using any 107 rodded crank. Sorry, but won't happen due to port/time area, end of.
You have a newly produced or NOS TV175 piston? Size? Is it for a 116 rod or 107? Number of rings? thickness of rings?
If you have a NOS, standard size TV175 piston then in a perfect world it needs matching to a NOS unworn TV175 cylinder. VERY tall order that.
Your budget is now determined by the piston you've bought and a cylinder bought from India (I think that would have given you a good clue, but you go on to consider an Indian 116 Rod FROM india)
You also quote brand new Vespa cranks for £25.And presume you would consider using one.
So far, I read this that;-
you want to achieve this TV175 engine based on an SX150 engine. Feasible.
You want to achieve this with a piston and an SX cylinder. Feasible, but (regardless of crank) Outside budget due to rebore cost and extensive porting required to achieve TV port size through it's length.
If your piston IS TV and standard size it make sense to use 116 Rodded crank. Feasible, on an SX crank, but to get an engine worth doing, do it right first time and get the likes of Harry Barlow/ Readspeed et al to do it with a decent rod/ bearing so it lasts.
If you're going to do it right (after all it's to an SX casing so originality isn't the goal here), you'll use an electronic set up. IF you are then use GP webs. The SX/Li taper electronic flywheel bosses are turned down, points bosses. the machining off of the cam for the points weakens the key area (where it used to be thicker due to the cam). I've had more than a dozen customers with this issue. 50lb/ft can cause them them to split down the keyway.(log splitting wedge?)
So, Indian gp webs with a 116 Italian rod fitted by the likes of the afore, outright ?? £100-140?
And Joespeed has offered a 175 cylinder (ports should be correct if not a bored out 150, or the works been done, plus it's had a rebore and piston to match/ suit. FOR £100 FFS!
If your piston is std/TV?, SELL IT.
Buy Joespeeds, wait until it arrives (or clarify before purchase whether 107 or 116 rod (or 110/115), and get crank made up to suit.
If it's 107, don't expect a TV ride.
If Joespeeds (or any other that "eventually" comes along. We're ALL waiting, sometimes YEARS for the right part AT the right price), is too expensive at present then you won't achieve the build anyway. Harsh, yep. (and FORGET the piston you have unless you can sit on it and the build for a LOOONG time or sell it)(no I don't want it!)
I have a genuine TV175S3 crank sat on a shelf, that I would gladly give you, but it needs a new rod/ bearing- and postage, so no good for you.(and SX/TV taper!)
If I could locate half of my secondhand parts theres probably at least one TV cylinder, but would require a rebore, so no good for you.
I've just written your answer to this build, New Cranks aren't £25. Starting with a rare piston? (you haven't said size??) as a basis for this is not where to start.
Talking to Harry Barlow/ Readspeed (Jerome has a great stock of pistons and first class rebores [he even rebuilds cranks too]) et all will give you your ball park figure to achieve an TV175 spec engine,
but based on what you've said, we know it's too much.
Sorry, but face it, increase your budget, wait a long long time (stuff does come up for next to nothing) or give it up.
OH, and don't use £25 "new cranks", please.
Simon.
B-Race Tuning wrote:I've read this whole post three times now, and like many am perplexed. Bear with me on this please.
First comment I'd like to make is that 3x wheeler 175 cylinders DO come in small block stud spacing. BUT, you would not choose to use one on any "series" scoot as the inlet is "facing" the wrong side and although you'd be able to fit an inlet manifold, at the gasket face the direction would change by nearly 90*. (Fli175 anyone?)
If you're attempting to achieve the "experience" of a TV175 / engine then you won't achieve it by either reboring ANY 150 cylinder to 175 and lobbing a piston at it, or using any 107 rodded crank. Sorry, but won't happen due to port/time area, end of.
You have a newly produced or NOS TV175 piston? Size? Is it for a 116 rod or 107? Number of rings? thickness of rings?
If you have a NOS, standard size TV175 piston then in a perfect world it needs matching to a NOS unworn TV175 cylinder. VERY tall order that.
Your budget is now determined by the piston you've bought and a cylinder bought from India (I think that would have given you a good clue, but you go on to consider an Indian 116 Rod FROM india)
You also quote brand new Vespa cranks for £25.And presume you would consider using one.
So far, I read this that;-
you want to achieve this TV175 engine based on an SX150 engine. Feasible.
You want to achieve this with a piston and an SX cylinder. Feasible, but (regardless of crank) Outside budget due to rebore cost and extensive porting required to achieve TV port size through it's length.
If your piston IS TV and standard size it make sense to use 116 Rodded crank. Feasible, on an SX crank, but to get an engine worth doing, do it right first time and get the likes of Harry Barlow/ Readspeed et al to do it with a decent rod/ bearing so it lasts.
If you're going to do it right (after all it's to an SX casing so originality isn't the goal here), you'll use an electronic set up. IF you are then use GP webs. The SX/Li taper electronic flywheel bosses are turned down, points bosses. the machining off of the cam for the points weakens the key area (where it used to be thicker due to the cam). I've had more than a dozen customers with this issue. 50lb/ft can cause them them to split down the keyway.(log splitting wedge?)
So, Indian gp webs with a 116 Italian rod fitted by the likes of the afore, outright ?? £100-140?
And Joespeed has offered a 175 cylinder (ports should be correct if not a bored out 150, or the works been done, plus it's had a rebore and piston to match/ suit. FOR £100 FFS!
If your piston is std/TV?, SELL IT.
Buy Joespeeds, wait until it arrives (or clarify before purchase whether 107 or 116 rod (or 110/115), and get crank made up to suit.
If it's 107, don't expect a TV ride.
If Joespeeds (or any other that "eventually" comes along. We're ALL waiting, sometimes YEARS for the right part AT the right price), is too expensive at present then you won't achieve the build anyway. Harsh, yep. (and FORGET the piston you have unless you can sit on it and the build for a LOOONG time or sell it)(no I don't want it!)
I have a genuine TV175S3 crank sat on a shelf, that I would gladly give you, but it needs a new rod/ bearing- and postage, so no good for you.(and SX/TV taper!)
If I could locate half of my secondhand parts theres probably at least one TV cylinder, but would require a rebore, so no good for you.
I've just written your answer to this build, New Cranks aren't £25. Starting with a rare piston? (you haven't said size??) as a basis for this is not where to start.
Talking to Harry Barlow/ Readspeed (Jerome has a great stock of pistons and first class rebores [he even rebuilds cranks too]) et all will give you your ball park figure to achieve an TV175 spec engine,
but based on what you've said, we know it's too much.
Sorry, but face it, increase your budget, wait a long long time (stuff does come up for next to nothing) or give it up.
OH, and don't use £25 "new cranks", please.
Simon.
Possibly the best post I've read on here in years. Makes perfect sense.
thank you for you post Simon which was very interesting but I think you have misread my intention completely.
Actually nobody yet has answered my question and the reason for this thread.
I asked "Could someone please enlighten me about how many different 175 cylinders there are and the various differences'
I am intending to build a spare engine out of used bits laying around to put on the shelf so that when I come to rebuild my original engine I shall have something to shove in my scoot so I can still have the occasional hack and not be off the road . It is unlikely to get more than 100 miles use so it doesn't need to be built to the sort of specification you are recommending. The original 150cc engine in my 64 Li150 is quite possibly over 50 years old and is still going fine. My thoughts were to build a TV175 type engine using a used TV175 crank together with a rebored 62mm Li,SX barrel and a TV175 head and TV175 piston that I already have.
I was sure that I had read on the MB Development site that all Lambro barrels were big block but I must have misread it .
Your information that they have a differant inlet port with the inlet facing the wrong direction was just the sort of info I was requesting. It hadn't occurred to me but now on reflection I remember seeing a picture of a Lambro crankcase and the engine is of course vertical not horizontal . So I needn't have worried about the barrel I purchased being a 3x wheeler Lambro barrel. As it happens it turns out to be a rebored Lamby barrel which my research tells me was a series 2 Li150 built in the 70s by API (Scooter India Ltd) It is a very close match to a SX150 barrel I have although the inlet port will need opening out .
blimeyolriley wrote:apologies I thought that I had said but to be fair all i was asking for was for someone to tell me which 175cc cylinders were small block spacing and which were big block spacing .
" Anyway what I am aiming for is to build a TV175 engine "
If I had just wanted to have a 175cc upgrade I would buy a 175 small block conversion kit for £100 and save myself all this grief.
Now I bet someone is going to ask me why I should want to build a TV175 long stroke engine to put on my Li150 series 3
If you want a TV175 s3 engine, START with a TV175 S3 cylinder. Not a piston, nor a crank.
blimeyolriley wrote:thank you for you post Simon which was very interesting but I think you have misread my intention completely.
Actually nobody yet has answered my question and the reason for this thread.
I asked "Could someone please enlighten me about how many different 175 cylinders there are and the various differences'
I am intending to build a spare engine out of used bits laying around to put on the shelf so that when I come to rebuild my original engine I shall have something to shove in my scoot so I can still have the occasional hack and not be off the road . It is unlikely to get more than 100 miles use so it doesn't need to be built to the sort of specification you are recommending. The original 150cc engine in my 64 Li150 is quite possibly over 50 years old and is still going fine. My thoughts were to build a TV175 type engine using a used TV175 crank together with a rebored 62mm Li,SX barrel and a TV175 head and TV175 piston that I already have.[qoute]
If you're only building this because you're expecting yours to fail, Whilst this good weather's with us, Give it to Dan, a.n.other or do it yourself and get new seals, 'o' rings, gaskets, any bearings required replaced, clutch plates, a gear selector and rings / rebore? £150-250, another 50 years?
The route you're going I'd think you'd be lucky to get that 100 miles out of it, and without spending circa £600+++ it's not going to be anywhere near the ride/ performance of a TV175.
As I said, and this IS NOT rubbing your nose in it, I know I have a TV175 crank, that was "perfect" when it came out, but it's been sat wrapped in anti corrosion paper for 15-20(??) years.I'd put money on it the bearing has brinnelled and would fail extremely quickly, and that can end messy, both mechanically, and physically. So without rodding it I wouldn't be happy for it to be used as is (Hence my "I think you may be lucky to get the 100 miles"), and I won't re-rod it until someone wants a TV crank with a TV taper, that I build, and that I'd advise against, cos I don't. (unlikely then).
"I was sure that I had read on the MB Development site that all Lambro barrels were big block but I must have misread it" .
If it's there then it must be true, but an Fli175 wasn't a Lambro, or was it? And you still wouldn't use the cylinder.
thank you for your advice simon your concern is much appreciated.
I think your components sound like they are in very poor condition so I should think it would be inadvisable for you to offer them to anyone to use on their engine rebuild
bristolmod wrote:the exhaust is a home made one. We used to call them "outriggers" back in the day- they made a fantastic noise but killed the performance.
I used an Indian "42mm "Bigbore" and blocked off the standard exhaust at the rear. I then grafted in an original outlet pipe and chrome 'trumpet" to form my own version of the outrigger- its still got that sound, but performance wise its not too compromised..
I started in scootering way back in 1968- I've had many many Lambretas over the years- this one will be my last. Thats why if I can get the right offer it will go with all the spares; tools and books etc.
Chris
To be honest i think I get more enjoyment now from tinkering and researching than I do from riding and thats Kinda sad.
B-Race Tuning wrote:The SX/Li taper electronic flywheel bosses are turned down, points bosses. the machining off of the cam for the points weakens the key area (where it used to be thicker due to the cam). I've had more than a dozen customers with this issue. 50lb/ft can cause them them to split down the keyway.(log splitting wedge?)
Simon.
Is that the case for all SX/LI tapered electronic flywheels? Points bosses have the keyway in a different position to electronics meaning that there isn't enough adjustment on the stator slots to time them correctly. I haven't had this problem on the ones I've done.
Also the cam on a points flywheel is on the opposite side of the boss to the keyway, so the keyway is already the thinnest part and wouldn't need any material removed from this area.
To be honest i think I get more enjoyment now from tinkering and researching than I do from riding and thats Kinda sad. I guess this is just nostalgia on my part as unlike you, until recently I have not had a scooter for the past 50 years
