Scooterotica

Hi Chris, yes I see where you're coming from, but what I mean is that when this is all bolted together as per the instructions, you will get what it says on the tin and as Nelson describes, you won't be faffing around experimenting to get the best from this, you put it all together and you'll get what you're told you'll get, you'll even save the dyno costs 'cos it's all been done for you. In other words, if you don't want to be riding up the road doing plug chops every five minutes and posting pictures asking whether the colour is good or not, but would rather be riding off into the sunset without fear of holing your piston after having built this motor, then that's plug and play, nothing to do with engine builds is as simple as unpacking a DVD player, but this is as close as you've ever had. So by comparison I think it's pretty much plug & play.

Going back to cost, how much would one spend on top quality parts, set up costs, travelling to dyno sessions etc. etc. for a motor that produces 30bhp and 20 ft/lbs? But I guarantee you it still won't have the tractability of this motor, the top figure isn't the be all, it's about how it performs on the road and how it pulls the gearing that counts, and I very much doubt that any motor that's produced the same peak figure before this even comes close, plus there's reliability to think about.

Steve, I saw the casings that Charlie's been working on, you won't be disappointed

... I forgot to mention the clutch, apart from the fact that you won't be using it anywhere near as much as you're used to, it really is quite light.

soulsurfer wrote: Going back to cost, how much would one spend on top quality parts, set up costs, travelling to dyno sessions etc. etc. for a motor that produces 30bhp and 20 ft/lbs? But I guarantee you it still won't have the tractability of this motor, the top figure isn't the be all, it's about how it performs on the road and how it pulls the gearing that counts, and I very much doubt that any motor that's produced the same peak figure before this even comes close, plus there's reliability to think about.

PM Massimo and see if he's got his (iron) RS240 running yet.

Or give Ralph a ring, and see how much he'd do you one for.

soulsurfer wrote: if you don't want to be riding up the road doing plug chops every five minutes and posting pictures asking whether the colour is good or not, but would rather be riding off into the sunset without fear of holing your piston after having built this motor,

Your tempting fate now,its a two stroke motor at the end of the day and we have all at some point run into trouble on a perfectly good motor.Im sure a lot of people used to say "no two identical motors are the same"

Yes, people do say no two identical motors are the same in terms of jetting etc.
The reason this is, is because lets say you have two guys running TS1's with the same ignition, carb and exhaust.
The jetting could be different and this is mainly due to manufacturing tolerences as explanied before.......port timings maybe slightly different. The combustion chambers may be slightly different on the head due to manufacturing etc.
This is the sort of thing that causes different jetting but if you have a barrel, piston and head where port timings are checked, casings are each done the same, head is checked etc and you stick to the suggested timing with the same ignition and crank and the exhaust is manufactured to the same spec by the same person, the jetting is going to be practically the same on every motor.

Comparing iron barrels to aluminium cylinders again is like chalk and cheese in my opinion.
Iron barrels are ok and are not the work of the devil but the fact is you can run tighter piston to bore clearances on an ally barrel and a nicosil coated ally barrel will last longer than an iron barrel in the same state of tune and that is fact. Nicosil wears less.
Ally barrels are more expensive but again it depends what you want...........the best is expensive.......not so good is cheap, as with everything in life.

Muttley McLadd wrote:

soulsurfer wrote: Going back to cost, how much would one spend on top quality parts, set up costs, travelling to dyno sessions etc. etc. for a motor that produces 30bhp and 20 ft/lbs? But I guarantee you it still won't have the tractability of this motor, the top figure isn't the be all, it's about how it performs on the road and how it pulls the gearing that counts, and I very much doubt that any motor that's produced the same peak figure before this even comes close, plus there's reliability to think about.

PM Massimo and see if he's got his (iron) RS240 running yet.

Or give Ralph a ring, and see how much he'd do you one for.

It still remains that the graph shown here is very different to any seen before, as I say there may be motors that have similar peak figures but not with the same area underneath them, yet someone will still say their mate's is 35bhp and 25ft/lbs, yeah maybe but it's not the same by any stretch, and probably never will be as long as studs run up the full length of the cylinder.

I feel we're just going over old ground again now

I beg to differ Soulsurfer, I've got one in front of me and plotted the MONZA graph on to it. This one starts making power and torque earlier and finishes latter, but has 5ftlbs and 7 hp more.

Chris CSPE wrote:I beg to differ Soulsurfer, I've got one in front of me and plotted the MONZA graph on to it. This one starts making power and torque earlier and finishes latter, but has 5ftlbs and 7 hp more.

Sounds impressive Chris, can you post the graph? What motor is it and what's been done to achieve those figures?

soulsurfer wrote: I saw the casings that Charlie's been working on, you won't be disappointed

this ?

^No mate, I think they're a long way off