Scooterotica

Class

eden wrote: It looks to me like it is you who is gunning for an argument when you have only half the facts.

This is what the internet was created for, Trigger and Python on demand.

I thought it was created so dodgy dealers could sell their shoddy parts and substandard services to a wider audiance

I'll be honest here and say I don't think theres any exhaust that consistantly fits first time every time or that doesn't have problems afterwards. This also includes btw the way the ones I think Muttley is talking about-nobody is perfect.
Customer service varies wildly.
Certainly deck and exhaust port heights vary on different machines which does have some effect on fit so often fettling is needed. Modular fitting to a range spreading over 30 years also doesn't help.
The problem will always be with Lambretta exhausts is that the engine is also the swinging arm and therefore the exhaust must be attached to it in its entirety and therefore absorb all its vibrations and movement. Some do this better than others. I have always wondered why all expansion manufactures didn't copy the Taffspeed system which IMHO is the most reliable expansion of all time.

I do get frustrated by the stubs also though and resent the fettling needed so they flow properly.

It could be argued that these pipe are made to a price though. A hand made pipe costs a lot more. Also in motorcycle terms they are peanuts-you don't get a can for that much.
It is right to expect quality though but you have to balance that against cost and one size fits all manufacturing.

Diablo wrote: The problem will always be with Lambretta exhausts is that the engine is also the swinging arm and therefore the exhaust must be attached to it in its entirety and therefore absorb all its vibrations and movement

what i said earlier in this thread .........also a good reason not to use stainless on lammies

i prefer the use of stubs .. 1 ..cos it makes bolting on far simpler and 2 as it allows movement in the pipe at a point that will crack after every bump or pot hole becomes too much ,

as al said ..you cant really expect a stub to match every port every time ...

i guess its easy for me to say given that my mate makes pipes so im never likely to buy a pm /mb / nk or what ever

Diablo wrote:I'll be honest here and say I don't think theres any exhaust that consistantly fits first time every time or that doesn't have problems afterwards. This also includes btw the way the ones I think Muttley is talking about-nobody is perfect.
Customer service varies wildly.
Certainly deck and exhaust port heights vary on different machines which does have some effect on fit so often fettling is needed. Modular fitting to a range spreading over 30 years also doesn't help.
The problem will always be with Lambretta exhausts is that the engine is also the swinging arm and therefore the exhaust must be attached to it in its entirety and therefore absorb all its vibrations and movement. Some do this better than others. I have always wondered why all expansion manufactures didn't copy the Taffspeed system which IMHO is the most reliable expansion of all time.

I do get frustrated by the stubs also though and resent the fettling needed so they flow properly.

It could be argued that these pipe are made to a price though. A hand made pipe costs a lot more. Also in motorcycle terms they are peanuts-you don't get a can for that much.
It is right to expect quality though but you have to balance that against cost and one size fits all manufacturing.

so i hope we can expect the SM exhaust from cam lam to be very good then for £750 plus vat !!!

I realise that the stub mounts look flash. But does anyone take their exhaust on and off more than once in a blue moon? Is it really worth bothering?

My exhaust is an RS44 Clubman. Not the cheapest thing, and doubtless not the 'best' performing exhaust money can buy. But on the other hand, I did spend over a day watching it being made. For the time and money, Ralph could probably have made a proper expansion pipe.
For the cost of what most pipes will set you back these days, are there many of the 'complete engine builders' that couldn't make a one off pipe, especially for the engine they've built? I'd be surprised if they couldn't. It'd fit perfectly (built for that engine) and cut down on the splitting and other complaints that the off the shelf pipes attract.

Diablo wrote:I'll be honest here and say I don't think theres any exhaust that consistantly fits first time every time or that doesn't have problems afterwards. This also includes btw the way the ones I think Muttley is talking about-nobody is perfect.
Customer service varies wildly.
Certainly deck and exhaust port heights vary on different machines which does have some effect on fit so often fettling is needed. Modular fitting to a range spreading over 30 years also doesn't help.
The problem will always be with Lambretta exhausts is that the engine is also the swinging arm and therefore the exhaust must be attached to it in its entirety and therefore absorb all its vibrations and movement. Some do this better than others. I have always wondered why all expansion manufactures didn't copy the Taffspeed system which IMHO is the most reliable expansion of all time.

I do get frustrated by the stubs also though and resent the fettling needed so they flow properly.

It could be argued that these pipe are made to a price though. A hand made pipe costs a lot more. Also in motorcycle terms they are peanuts-you don't get a can for that much.
It is right to expect quality though but you have to balance that against cost and one size fits all manufacturing.

As has been stated

"I have always wondered why all expansion manufactures didn't copy the Taffspeed system which IMHO is the most reliable expansion of all time."

Maybe it was because we took time & care to fit each exhaust system on an engine unit before dispatch?
Or that the manufacturer Geoff Champion had took care to ensure that quality control was kept up?

The fact that the stub manifold was designed by us to get Cast & TS1 cylinders to use the same U Pipes (Of which there were 2 lengths to sort motor compatability) main bodies for both series 1 & 2, series 3 & muffler system!
Plus there was the option for 6-8 plate clutch where the chaincase was spaced out by 10mm.
These changes back in 1996 to make the Mk4 system cured nearly all the gripes I had with the then JL made Taffspeed systems from 1988 to 1996 for both Vespa & Lambretta.

Since the first batch of 10 - Mk4 prototype systems were made as a solid unit, some failed during testing on the pressing front section, others on the tail pipe section.
I only had 9 returned back & they were replaced, but there is a UK made stainless made system which looks very similar even today!

Designing an exhaust sytem that will work around the then crop of cylinder conversions took several months of developement at Allgear in Coventry using their dyno. Hence you have today the JL made JL3 the old designed Taffspeed Mk3, JL4 the Taffspeed Race Grp4 that gave the best ground clearance of any performance exhaust & when fitted to a TS1 engine gave 25bhp with a very wide spead of power. You just have to put up with the front section needing to be welded up due to cracking & they still do the same today after all it was our race box.

Grayham at Kegra Racing also had his exhaust designs made by JL Exhausts during the same period ~ hence the KRP1 & KRP2 plus his Vespa systems!

Still people copy & screw it up! All because the do not know the working developement behind the design, it was not about penny pinching but getting the exhaust to work & fit. Some JL systems still foul Series 3 footboards on th eflywheel side!

A New & unused Taffspeed Mk4 system sold on Ebay this week for it's original 2005 selling price of £395.
The purchaser has made an investment that should last him 10 years or more as none of our Mk4 Lambretta systems were returned as faulty during use.

Maybe I should look to getting them made again in the UK where I can keep control of the quality.
But would you the end user be prepared to pay £450-£500 for them?

Best regards

Ian Frankland
Taffspeed
07794 003276

Out of all the exhausts I have ever used from the 80's till now the Taffspeed Mk 4 was the best built one by far.Proper mounts and endcan brackets and made of real steel(probably 3mm by the weight of it ) A mate ran one for around 10 years and in all that time the only repair needed was a patch on the U bend caused by rust.