Scooterotica

wayne cudine wrote:Is that the "once in a lifetime" referendum that the snp will renage on if the vote goes against them?
An insult to the Scottish people who voted to stay in the union.

I think it was 'once in a generation' but let's not argue over the timeframe, life expectancy's up here's too short for that...

It's swung round since then, the perception is that the Tories (and other unionist parties) broke all the promises made after the last referendum, that that vote of confidence in the union has been betrayed, they could win it now...

If there's a fundamental change, where it's perceived that Scots didn't vote in favour of it, then there's a reasonable argument that the situation has changed significantly enough to warrant another go.

a.j wrote:I just don't want to be bossed about by foreigners. It's that simple.

Funny that's how some of us feel up in Scotland!!

I think of how the Greeks voted in a majority to KB a bail out only to then sign up to a shitter deal. That's antidemocratic and makes me wanna vote out....

Then I think of some of the most right wing assholes who want out, and I almost feel dirty thinking I'd agree with anything they'd say.

Boris FfS his power should be limited to colouring in books and crayons! A complete and utter roaster of a man.

Verdict undecided leaning towards staying ( against my anti establishment fibre)

OUT!!!!!

As soon as Tony blair told me staying in was good for Britain, i knew i wanted to leave.
If Tony Blair said snow was white i would go outside and check the colour for myself.

Robbie

In- we know how Britain works and we adjust to suit our selfs ie having the ability to move kids schools ,where we live ,who we speak to , yes immigration is bad but what's the answer, we know what to expect on a daily basis- out -who knows what will happen do we really want to take a wild card

Even if we are not in europe ..... We can move kids from one school to another. However as schools are becoming oversubscribed thats be oming hardet to fo.
We can also speak to whom we want as well.
Howeve if we have more migrants the nhs services become stretched. More people using the system means we have to wait more for treatment.
More migrants here mean more migrants to find housing for. Meaning less chance for your or my kids to rent or buy cheap houses.
More migrants taking jobs mean the wages can be pushed down... Not up. Less chance of your kids finding a job.
More chance of wasters saying "theres no jobs the poles have taken them all."

The answer....... Who knows...... A points system as in the case of Australia?

Sometimes change is bad... Sometimes change can be good.

To be fair not many can remember what it was like not being in the EU (pre-73) but I don't recall a sudden change in our life style when we entered.....then it seemed to go downhill, the closure of Britain's mines/car industry and general manufacturing, un-employment gradually rising since joining, more difficulties in obtaining social housing, the list goes on.........the EU didn't seem to give the security it promised.

If we do opt out can the EU afford not to trade with the UK ? we shouldn't underestimate our value to the EU, they will still want to deal with the UK.

I think i'm convincing myself to opt out.....I can't seem to find any sensible reason to stay other than "better to stick with what you know".....and I don't really know what will happen if we stay ?

No one knows the answer mick.

I know people do not like change. Do not like the unknown.
I know i dont.
So with this in mind i think the country will vote to stay in europe.

Then just as the scots have found after their referendum....
We will have to accept what ever europe tells us to do...... And be told you opted to stay in so just shut up and get on with it.

Cameron came back from his negotiations with a very watered down list of demands having had to accept even less than he had supposedly wanted, saying if he didn't get what he wanted, he would campaign to leave. He didn't get half of his demands met and even then the European commision said that nothing has been ratified and won't be till after our referendum. He's a lying tw@t and I bet if we leave the European commision will say " we were going to let you have all you begged for", and if we vote to stay they will say (laughing while saying it) "no you can't have your demands so you're still in and you can just lump it". You may think I'm being cynical but that's my belief after all that's happened in the previous dealings with Europe .

Something we need to be careful about in this argument is keeping to the facts about what Europe has and hasn't caused.
Not all of the bad things that have happened in the last 40 years is the fault of Europe.
Much of our non white Christian immigration was due to the empire we had and bugger all to do with Europe.
The decline of our major industry once again had nothing to do with Europe and was an decision by our elected government. The sell of our nationalised industries was a decision made (on ideological grounds) by our elected government, they may have used the excuse of Europe, but look at other countries who have maintained their nationalised industries.
The current major immigration problems are external to Europe, and they would like to end it as much as we do.

My own personal opinion is that there is much wrong with the EU, but there are a lot of benefits to it.
I'm still trying to sort out the Jingo bullshit from the real facts about leaving
And
The scaremongering threats if we leave
Oh and the politicians telling fibs
Hopefully we will start to have a sensible fact based debate on the pros no cons and leave out the we won the war/ if you vote leave its economic disaster.