The end of the Lambretta crank as we know it ???

[mark]

thats what i thought m8

[Juan]

Taking JIMS point on smallframes for a moment I think that Tony will agree that the Falc items take a very large slice from HRC's R&D department. Nothing wrong with that at all, who wouldn't given the chance to base something on the multi millions they've spent over the years? And that's no slight on Lauro's sublime talent nor Charlie's, if you've got the basic tools and the intelligence to modify and improve for specific needs then it can only be a good thing.

[tony]

Juan, totally agree. Lauro is an ex gp tuner working on hrc stuff.. lucky for us lot that he's also a smallframe nut(the kit had been worked and based around the small cc vol of the vespa tho-now that will start em off again! ). My kit has been totally reworked though for the track. Lauro's 'standard' kit is sprint based (as you know juan).

Dave, top post. I've a few old stories . But i'd like to hear some of the physical battles on track between you and Terry. Watching those races was awesome. Remember that grp3 race at 3 sisters you had with Eddie Dickinson and Tim Wilson in 1990.. madness. In fact group 3 that year was the largest class and great to watch.

J1ms...yes of course I remember chatting. I still think group 4 advances are there massively..thats why I quoted the figures. We can really at the moment only compare using the argument that group 4 machines are basically quicker than the group 6's now and this is because of the development that has gone into this class. I like it.. they look like scooters and are fast as hell. It makes it attractive for the vmcc spectator who can identify what is a scooter...they get a little confused with the group 6's you see.

[Muttley McLadd]

Wow!!! DJ on here. Anyone who knows me will be aware that He's my hero!

Let the ass kissing commence.

I'm going to laugh when it's exposed as a wind up.

Will the real Dawn Milen please stand up?

[paulmgreen]

DJ200 is indeed Dave Webster.

Well.... we are now a long way from the original post!

We could split off into 3 or 4 equally interesting postsfrom here!

A few points.... for my own tuppenceworth...

After 14 years away from racing, and 'unretiring' myself... I can confirm..... the scooters are now much faster, both in straight line speed and definitely cornering speed. Its difficult to accurately compare lap times as there are virtually no unmolested circuits that are totally the same as they were 20 years ago.

No disrespect at all to current riders, but there were a few riders back then...... and I would include Webbo in the category of riders that were , on their day, sublimely talented and could lap a couple of seconds quicker than maybe they should have done! Thye could just get into a 'zone' and were blindingly fast , and certainly in Daves case ultra competitive.

Its also maybe the wrong emphasis to totally concentrate on comparing lap record times..... If it were possible to compare the times of 'Mr Middle of the pack' rider, then I think this is where the improvements would really show.

Many race developments have, and will continue to to find their way onto . into road scooters. But some of the points made about racers being secretive, are naive...... to those racing, they are generally very competitive, and want to be the best in some way, if they can't be the best ( there's only 1 of those!) then they want to improve.... beat a few more people,....... beat someone they have not been close to before,........ improve a lap time....etc etc. So they are not likely to share their improvement work as the guy they are trying to get in front of may just do the same!

But it may take a while for developments to filter through.... the secrets ( mainly) eventually come out and start to become main stream.

But very few (true) race developments are developed with the mass market in mind....they may end up tehre, but don't start out that way....

.... Racing stories....... yes...... they are the stuff of legends........ some get added to along the way...... some are just true.

I personally remember Webbo being pushed one year by big Bob West. Bob was in the Royal Navy bobsleigh team, and was a big solid fella(!) . At a right hander you could see Webbo had pushed and pushed Bob and was going to 'make a move'. webbo ( a little like Senna in F1) could sometimes have that general approach of ' I'm coming through..... like it or not.... and If you block me we will crash '. On this occasion, Bob knew it was coming..... Webbo tried to lean on him through the pit right hander...... Bob's shoulders stiffened...... ready for Dave to try and force his way through..... Dave inevitably dived aggressively underneath,,,,,,, Bob just stayed solid. Dave hit him , but Bob was unmoveable...... Dave went down! ( remounted and carried on though!)

I remember fondly Terry Frankland being such a brilliant rider. I remember him sliding down the track at Three Sisters, on his side but refusing to let go of the handlebars as he slid down the track speed undiminished, and completed a full 360 degrees in the track.... then just seemed to pop his foot out, and sprang up and carried on his way, losing the lead, but only one place, which he got back a lap later. My dad used to say that terry didn't actually brake at all,,,,, he just shifted his weight. Fond memories.

[DJ200]

OK then, a Mick White Joke at Ralph Saxelbys expense....
Raph lived at 84 Earlesmere... stayed there many times, It wara reet big terrassed aahse we a reet big sellah. Ah wuh there wi Mick White. (No sorry I can't keep it up...) Ralph had everything beautifully arranged in this underground centrally heated dungeon.
Strangely.... there were all these Lambretta race barrels on the cellar steps, neatly arranged from top to bottom.
"Ralph.... Why do you have all these barrels like this?" I Innocentily asked...
"Well" says Ralph... "Ah sort em aht wi the quickuns at the top and the slowuns at the bottom"
Quick as a flash came back Mick Whites reply...
"That'd be no good for me then 'cos I aint got enough room on my top step!"
Bum Bum! And there really wasn't an answer back to that one!

And a Bob West story. We were at Weston-S-Mare for the "Cavalcade of Speed", Saturday was fun day, the "main event" (at least for me), was Sundays Twisty Sprint on the main runway.
Saturday was a Grasstrack. Now Grasstracking and me really really really don't get on. I can't cope, I had no idea.
Anyway, Big Bob had a 125 Vega and this battered old 225cc ex Grp6 racer thingy with 400x10 knobblies. He said I could borrow it. So I entered. Everyone else was on Primmys or Vegas, and me, with absolutely no effin idea at all on this Lamby UnGuided Missile. Down went the flag, and I BLASTED OFF!! Left everyone for dead..... that is until we came to the bends. I'd no idea at all, but reverted to my usual hang off the seat, knee out style, scared witless. I wobbled through the bends, taking up that much room that no-one could get past. Terry, Norrie, Bob, and several of the proper grass specialists, (Kev Walkman?) formed a queue, but couldn't get round, and each time we hit the straight, I'd hit the throttle until the next bend when they'd all be trying to mount me again. I held out for five or six laps to take my one and only grasstrack win! There was also a ghymkana event; ride up the field two up, rear wheel off, lift the scooter over a wall of straw bales, refit the wheel and ride back. Fastest time wins. Ever Mr Competitive, I realised that a Vega, with THREE wheel nuts, was a good bet, and I teamed with Bob. Waving a speed brace ready equipped with an M13 socket, we raced up the field. Bob laid the bike over, while I undid the wheel. As I let go the wheel, it rolled away, fifteen, maybe twenty yards. I raced after the wheel, but while I was gone, Bob phsically picked up the scooter all on his own, threw it over the bales and with the motor still running was there waiting ready before I was! Wheel back on and we raced to the finish to record a time around a minute faster than anyone else! Next came the sidepanel race. An old Lammy SII sidepanel, tied with a rope around the handle to the back of the bike. Rider on bike, teammate sits(?) on the panel for a lap around the course. We used the 225 Grp6 racer for this! Bob raced off with me hanging on for grim death, sliding around in a wild arc. Back to the start, and swap positions. Bob sat on the panel, all 22 stone of muscle and sinew, I opened the throttle, and promptly covered Bob with mud and straw as the rear knobbly just dug a great hole and everyone fell about laughing!

See? Not everything was taken so very seriously!

Dj "the older I get the better it was" Webbo

[sean brady scooters]

love it...........cant wait for more...............

[tony]

Now I've a great one.. and I Know Dave will probably shoot me.. thats if he remembers who I am.. but Pembrey around 1989(?) (i'm sure it was pembrey) and basically soemthing happens on the start and Mr Webster here, lies on the track almost DEAD! Anyway even if he gets up he has no chance of catching up so the unconcious dave uses his head and lies still.. the race is of course stopped and miraculously Mr Webbo recovers to go off and win (i think!)
now thats a race brain..

[paulmgreen]

i will always be grateful to Webbo for once crashing out on his Gp4 on the way to teh startline after coming in from Gp3 and swapping bikes he had omitted to put brain fully into gear to recognise cold tyres. He broke his handlebars and could not make the start from his allocated pole.

For some bizarre reason I've never understood to this day, the start line officials waved everyone behind up a line.... so I went from 6th to pole! In those days the front row of 5 was done by championship place - hence why Webbo was on pole...... the rest were drawn out of a hat.

that race was one of my best as i was dragged along by the leading group and followed Malc Anderson for the first couple of laps following his lines, going more than 2 seconds faster than I'd ever gone round Three Sisters!

That race spurred me on back in the day ..... and i started to place higher on teh extra confidence that race gave me!

[Avantone]

i will always be grateful to Webbo for once crashing out on his Gp4 on the way to teh startline after coming in from Gp3 and swapping bikes he had omitted to put brain fully into gear to recognise cold tyres. He broke his handlebars and could not make the start from his allocated pole.

For some bizarre reason I've never understood to this day, the start line officials waved everyone behind up a line.... so I went from 6th to pole! In those days the front row of 5 was done by championship place - hence why Webbo was on pole...... the rest were drawn out of a hat.

that race was one of my best as i was dragged along by the leading group and followed Malc Anderson for the first couple of laps following his lines, going more than 2 seconds faster than I'd ever gone round Three Sisters!

That race spurred me on back in the day ..... and i started to place higher on teh extra confidence that race gave me!

That's funny, of all the great tracks, Three Sisters was where I had my racing apifiny too. I spent the majority of the race tucked up close behind Keith Terry desperately trying not to lose touch down the straight and discovered some much quicker lines through the infield (off the obvious, but slippery-when-wet racing lines).

I passed him on the last lap braking into the right hander after the summit to the delight of my watching team-mates only to lose to his experience amongst the backmarkers round the final bend - still my most satisfying race ever, where I appreciated what it was like to run up front with the "top boys" (and all on an Iron-homebrew )