EU, in or out?

[jonboy]

Out

[wayne cudine]

Funny how the in campaign are hiding the fact that the EU are planning an EU army till after the referendum in case it swings the vote against them. Putin is in Greece and warning that the missile system that the yanks have placed in Romania and soon to be deployed in Poland is threatening them so they will act to protect themselves. The Europeans would just roll over turn tail and run from them. The Eu is courting war by their destabilising of Ukraine who had a coup against their government to put a pro Eu government in place and as for the Crimea that has always been part of Russia and my old regiment has the drums captured from the battle of Alma in the Crimea fought in the 19th century against Russia.

[10 inch Terror]

[Morgan]

Getting closer now. I think there's 2 camps, Economic and Immigration. The economic camp is for staying and the immigration is for leaving. For me it's out, which is based on the immigration issues, Turkey coming into the EU would only mean more immigrants and as much as I like kebabs and takeaways, I think we have enough !!

[10 inch Terror]

Whether people like it or not immigration into the uk is a huge concern. In many large towns and city's indigenous Brits are fast becoming a minority. Current migration levels are out of control and cannot be allowed to continue as they are. Us being in the EU prevents us from controlling numbers to a reasonable level. Cameron has promised to cut levels by ex amount but has failed to do so. I read somewhere 4 out of 5 jobs go to foreign workers which is a concern if true. I don't go for this lazy British worker and foreigners do the jobs nobody wants. We have always had cleaners, bin men, toilet cleaners road sweepers etc etc only foreign workers will do it for less. If we remain in and Turkey join ( even though 98% of its land mass is outside Europe ) we will be flooded with new migrants all needing homes, jobs, school places, doctors, water, electricity, gas, hospitals et etc. We could see our infrastructures collapse under the strain.

[Meds]

Not doubting that. It's a real and concerning situation as we have nowhere to go, my big question is what will we do differently when we leave the EU

1. We (Britain) are failing to deal with Illegal immigration from outside the EU. It's us that fail to track down and deport illegals.
2. The French are obliged to deal with the UK bound illegals at the jungle in Calais as the UK border control is in France. If we leave the EU, the jungle won't disappear and the French don't need to help.
3. The vast majority of EU migrants are working tax payers and they won't/can't be deported overnight.

I don't think leaving the EU will make a blind bit of difference as I haven't heard any practical solutions/ method of dealing with these problem, law changes or boosting of border controls.

There are solutions to these problems, not simple quick fixes and some that we have already rejected, like ID cards.
When the solutions are finally put forward, look behind them, find out what it means to us.

No 1 solution, stop destabilising Arab governments.

[diesel]

No 1 solution, stop destabilising Arab governments.

Well said.

[Muttley McLadd]

No 1 solution, stop destabilising Arab governments.

We're coming up to the 100 year anniversary of us starting to do that, aren't we?

[10 inch Terror]

Have to agree there, the Middle East was a better place pre the 2nd Gulf war. Although western governments will always have an interest there, as any developed nation deprived of oil for too long, won't be developed for much longer.

[Meds]

So.
Knowing what we know now about the result of middle eastern wars designed to Destabalise authoritarian control and the resultant power vacuums, should our forward thinkers not be able to predict the following?
The Rise Islamic fundamentalism ( please note this is no different from the rise of Christian fundamentalism in the 15 &. 1600)
The resultant socio economic effects on the Middle East and migrant crisis in Europe.
Recession caused by oversupply and under consumption ( history repeats/repeats/repeats)
That leads me to believe that we are being played for mugs, they don't care, or both.

For me and you the migrant issue is real, our jobs, our schools, our streets.
for the migrants, their issues are real, country's stability destroyed, rule of law destroyed, areas controlled by the biggest thug on the street, how to save your family - find a country where the rule of law applies, I have more in common with them than I do with Eaton educated millionaires.

When you see a headline
Take control immigration, ask how? What will you do that will control immigration.
Take control of our borders, how will you do that? what will you do differently?
Make our own laws, ask Why do we need to still make law, Then read about why Winston Churchill was in favour of the Human Rights laws.
The city Money will leave London, ask why is that so bad?
No one will trade with us, 5 th biggest world economy, is that right?

The more I investigate/learn the Less I believe there is any difference in our political options.
Neither will solve the problems, both will claim victory then blame the other for its failings.