Scooterotica

i dont understand why its being called a touring motor. is it because the graph shows low power for a road/race set up. to be honest id be gutted if id spent that much and got handed that graph.

tj hooker wrote:i dont understand why its being called a touring motor. is it because the graph shows low power for a road/race set up. to be honest id be gutted if id spent that much and got handed that graph.

I think Tony (green hornet) has posted quite a bit on here about it being a touring kit, which is possibly why it now has that label attached? I'd possibly suggest its more of a fast-road kit rather than tourer? When people say a touring kit, I tend to think of something low-revving like the Avanti....but that's just me. And yes, when it comes to 'bang for buck' you are definitely better off spending money elsewhere in my opinion, 20+hp sil 200 motors, 25+hp Rapido motors and 30+hp TS1 motors are common place, easily attainable and comparativly more economical to build. However the whole super monza kit is well thought out and well developed, so maybe the price has less to do with the graph and more to do with quality of product/materials and craftmanship? I've not had one of the kits in hand so could not confirm that though. But Tony did also place great emphasis on Charlies track record for unbreakable motors, so again.....maybe the money is a reflection of quality and not bhp? Who knows, time will tell......

From my understanding it's a high speed tourer. Bear in mind this is running a TV200 (15x46 giving 4.44) gearbox also. How many 30 brake TS1's and RB's can run that properly.......not a lot from what i've heard from other people.
I am building a super monza and my TV gearbox has been sent to Charlie to check over. When discussing on the telephone the reason this gearbox was chosen or the use of the specially made gearbox is recomended (because there aren't many good TV boxes out there to cope with this) is because other gearboxes simply aren't long enough for the motor, especially in first and second.
Its not just the top end thats important on this machine as has been said. Its the whole package working together to create a rideable fast tourer with reliability (if you listen to the recomendations from the designer).

30+bhp peak and a flat torque curve should be good for 90 with a committed rider.

Li150 with 18x47 would get you up there and would give the clutch an easier time, but with so little power low down and no overlap it would probably be annoying round town.

TV200 with 15x46 looks like the best fit with 2k of overlap between the all important 3rd and 4th.

70mph @ 6100rpm with plenty left for effortless overtaking.

Maybe those new 5 speed boxes might help.

The futuristic ones?

Avantone wrote:

30+bhp peak and a flat torque curve should be good for 90 with a committed rider.

Li150 with 18x47 would get you up there and would give the clutch an easier time, but with so little power low down and no overlap it would probably be annoying round town.

TV200 with 15x46 looks like the best fit with 2k of overlap between the all important 3rd and 4th.

70mph @ 6100rpm with plenty left for effortless overtaking.

Hi mate,

Hopefully, picking my motor up this weekend from Charlie, and was planning on using Li150 with 18 x 47 - as can't find a TV 200 box, and also wanted to give the clutch an easier time.

However, now you've got me wondering, so would you explain what you mean by "overlap", and why the TV200 would be better around town than the Li150??

Thanks,

Tom

Tom Russell wrote:

Avantone wrote:

30+bhp peak and a flat torque curve should be good for 90 with a committed rider.

Li150 with 18x47 would get you up there and would give the clutch an easier time, but with so little power low down and no overlap it would probably be annoying round town.

TV200 with 15x46 looks like the best fit with 2k of overlap between the all important 3rd and 4th.

70mph @ 6100rpm with plenty left for effortless overtaking.

Hi mate,

Hopefully, picking my motor up this weekend from Charlie, and was planning on using Li150 with 18 x 47 - as can't find a TV 200 box, and also wanted to give the clutch an easier time.

However, now you've got me wondering, so would you explain what you mean by "overlap", and why the TV200 would be better around town than the Li150??

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Tom,

Looking at the dyno graph, it doesn't start making power until 5500+rpm but then does so really smoothly until around 8000rpm.

The y-axis on the graph goes negative which gives the impression there's more area under the graph than there really is, and it doesn't show how much (or little) it's making sub 4700rpm.

If you want to keep the motor on the boil, ideally when you change up, your gearbox will allow you to pick up the next ratio without dropping off the power. The overlap is the bandwidth of rpm you can do this within. For instance with the Li150 box you can change up to 4th from 3rd at anything between 7600rpm and 8000rpm and hit that smooth torque curve, however if you changed up at 6500 you'd hit 4th at around 5000rpm and only 8bhp!

It's more accute with the Li150 box when going from 2nd to 3rd as to hit the power in 3rd you need to take it right up to 8000rpm with no bandwidth on when you could change (assuming you're going for it). The TV200 box is more forgiving in this context as you wouldn't have to stay glued to a tacho to get your gear changes right.

Nice now, and even nicer if a good 5 or 6 speed box existed.

Avantone wrote:

Tom Russell wrote:

Avantone wrote:

30+bhp peak and a flat torque curve should be good for 90 with a committed rider.

Li150 with 18x47 would get you up there and would give the clutch an easier time, but with so little power low down and no overlap it would probably be annoying round town.

TV200 with 15x46 looks like the best fit with 2k of overlap between the all important 3rd and 4th.

70mph @ 6100rpm with plenty left for effortless overtaking.

Hi mate,

Hopefully, picking my motor up this weekend from Charlie, and was planning on using Li150 with 18 x 47 - as can't find a TV 200 box, and also wanted to give the clutch an easier time.

However, now you've got me wondering, so would you explain what you mean by "overlap", and why the TV200 would be better around town than the Li150??

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Tom,

Looking at the dyno graph, it doesn't start making power until 5500+rpm but then does so really smoothly until around 8000rpm.

The y-axis on the graph goes negative which gives the impression there's more area under the graph than there really is, and it doesn't show how much (or little) it's making sub 4700rpm.

If you want to keep the motor on the boil, ideally when you change up, your gearbox will allow you to pick up the next ratio without dropping off the power. The overlap is the bandwidth of rpm you can do this within. For instance with the Li150 box you can change up to 4th from 3rd at anything between 7600rpm and 8000rpm and hit that smooth torque curve, however if you changed up at 6500 you'd hit 4th at around 5000rpm and only 8bhp!

It's more accute with the Li150 box when going from 2nd to 3rd as to hit the power in 3rd you need to take it right up to 8000rpm with no bandwidth on when you could change (assuming you're going for it). The TV200 box is more forgiving in this context as you wouldn't have to stay glued to a tacho to get your gear changes right.

Nice now, and even nicer if a good 5 or 6 speed box existed.

Hi Tony,

That's great, thanks for explaining this further.

Cheers,

Tom

hi Tom havnt cam lam got any tv200 boxs , they had a few when i bought mine , Steve