Uprated clutches.....is there any need?

[bristolmod]

I think we all can easily slip into the "newer is better/ must have " mentality at times to the detriment of our scooters and our wallets!!

Whilst undoubtedly there have been after-market improvements produced over the years, many of these are poorly produced and bring an additional set of problems with them.

Need to be careful about "reinventing the wheel", and I tend to work on the basis of "if it ain't broke don't fix it"

Having said that, all my scooters over the years have been standard/ mildly tuned, and I can appreciate the need for upgrades if an engine is highly tuned

Chris

[cit205]

Standard clutch with old style px springs over the standard ones , not had to touch it for 5 years. To be fair it does only do about 3000 miles a year due to other scooters and vehicles ,but they are mostly fairly heavy loaded up touring /rally miles. honda 205 with indian GP 'box 19x46 sprockets ,probably only max 13-14hp .

[sideout]

Standard SIL GP200 engine and clutch, slipped when hot. Fitted an Avanti top end and Cam Lam 6 plate clutch and no problems since

I'd assume that the clutch was the standard SIL unit then? As I said decent springs and plates are more than adequate for most engines. Only my opinion though.....

Absolutely right mate . I thought I'd give the clutch that came in the engine a go as I was only running in the top end while I was waiting for the Avanti. I don't think the plates that were fitted were up to much, no amount of adjustment could solve it. I'm sure, like you, that decent plates and springs would have done the job on the standard SIL 200, but I wanted to set the Avanti up as a low revving torque monster hence my choice of a 6 plate clutch.

[paulnobodyimportant]

A good question this one as i have been feeling guilty this last 3 years when bar talk has got around to uprated clutches. I built a Monza 225 3 years ago and just replaced the SIL plates with 4 newfren plates and new standard springs. It was dynod at just under 20BHP and has done 3000+ and no issues. Mind you as ArmandTanzarian siad, gear box makes a big difference and mine is the standard GP200 box with final ratio of 5.2 ish. There again, I have a 225 TS1, with almost the same BHP and gear box. But when I stripped it down last winter, the 5 plate clutch was worn and the spider was cut to ribbons and it has made me question some f the claims about these uprated clutches.

[shocky]

i appreciate it was along time ago but i ran a gp6 240 and a gp4 205 on the track in the 80,s with standard clutches but uprated springs and the same for my other road 240 and various other tuned scoots more recently (2003-2011) i have always used 4 plate clutches with vespa spings on the outside on everything from a 175 to a ts1 230 the later did have the crown wheel modified for a 5 plate conversion but i used it for more separation,ive always used LI pressure plates with the spindle in the center that goes into the cluster but the outside "nipple" has been ground of to allow the use of a GP side casing ,i check everything fits smoothly and without drag befor putting the springs in and always grind a little of the kickstart just incase it hits the top plate
if someone has cluch slip i ask when was the last time you changed your springs often they say never but have replaced the plate a few times ,the spings do compress or get lazy in there operation

[Speed Demon]

I ran a tuned TS1 225 for years on 4 Surflex B plates and 10 springs (5 PX over 5 lammy ones) and it worked fine with low ratio gearboxes and GP sprockets, but couldn't cope with an SX200 box. However it took a fair bit of pulling on the lever and wasn't great to ride around town. Certainly my wife couldn't even pull the lever in.

Nowadays the new clutches I've tried (LTH or AF) will hold more power than that and still be soft enough at the lever for a lady to use. If you have to do any town riding at all with a tuned engine then that's certainly a step forward. The ease of fitting the AF cassette type is another bonus, though it's a shame that it only works with GP side casings.

If your engine is not so powerful and still runs fine on standard springs then you probably wont notice the difference and you might as well stick with what you've got.

[Eibar]

I neither need a 5 plate, nor a 5 speed or carbon ceramic thingy bob.

Heretic..

What about stainless steel?

Ah "the devils steel" never, one piece of stainless and next thing I'd be using pneumatic tyres, modern day fuels and all manner of mystic mayhem would break loose.

[10 inch Terror]

I just think sometimes it's a case of fixing a problem thats not really there. When i built the engine, as it was an Imola it would need an up rated clutch, so I purchased one. When that one wouldn't work, I tried a different one, that too wouldn't work, so spent several months messing around with it. It wasn't until I tried a standard one, that i solved the problem. I'm sure many engines need an up rated clutch but, it's worth trying a a decent standard one first.....