SII Li150 with Casa kit won't start when warm ...
have you got a jetex carb on it ? if so this is one of the common signs of bad one
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Devo McDuff
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If the choke was still on wouldn't I have trouble once running?
Yep, it is a Jetex. Is new but I guess it might still be faulty. Will have a word with the scoot shop.
Ta.
Yep, it is a Jetex. Is new but I guess it might still be faulty. Will have a word with the scoot shop.
Ta.
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sideout
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Dan, If it was running ok with that carb before, surely it's unlikely just to have turned itself into a bad carb?Devo McDuff wrote:..... was going well until it died a while back.
Have you checked for air leaks?
You say the seals have been changed, maybe it was set up to compensate for leaking seals previously?
Just chucking some ideas out there
Cheers,
Nigel
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Monty
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Dan
I doubt you are using choke in Sydney even when cold, you are not using it when warm I hope?? No messing with the throttle while kicking it over?? leave it closed.
As already said try the carb rubber off and look for any petrol collecting in the bottom, While the rubber is off check the choke plunger is all the way down onto the choke jet. If you look at the front of the Jetex in line with the choke cable you can see the brass choke plunger, it should be all the way down and lift clear of the hole when on. Whats it run like when its going?
My Casa was always very good at starting and with a brand new kit you should be able to rule out rings and poor compression, so its petrol, spark, bang. IMO
You can always bring it home to Manchester, you will need your choke then and a bloody good coat
I doubt you are using choke in Sydney even when cold, you are not using it when warm I hope?? No messing with the throttle while kicking it over?? leave it closed.
As already said try the carb rubber off and look for any petrol collecting in the bottom, While the rubber is off check the choke plunger is all the way down onto the choke jet. If you look at the front of the Jetex in line with the choke cable you can see the brass choke plunger, it should be all the way down and lift clear of the hole when on. Whats it run like when its going?
My Casa was always very good at starting and with a brand new kit you should be able to rule out rings and poor compression, so its petrol, spark, bang. IMO
You can always bring it home to Manchester, you will need your choke then and a bloody good coat
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Devo McDuff
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How do,
Sorry for the late reply Monty, work has been full on. Got some time to have a proper butchers and give the old girl a bit of TLC at the weekend though.
If I give it no choke at first it doesn't want to know. It is a bit nippier here than you'd expect, half the temperature of Manchester at the moment but it is pissin down in both cities! When starting I leave the throttle until the engine gets going then I give it some or it dies. When I can't start it it doesn't really get to that point. In most cases I can get it going now but can take a lot of messing about. Can sometimes help if I leave the tap off and kick it over a few times, wouldn't that mean it is flooded though? I pretty much always turn the tap off after stopping. Can't really see much of a pattern as can be a couple of kicks sometimes or 20. When I can't get it going I have mastered the art of the hill-start at least.
Just read back in Sideout's post about disconnecting the rubber elbow. Forgot to try that, will give it a go.
It runs pretty well if I can get it going. Requires very high revs before the power really kicks-in though but is quite nippy. It was fully run-in before the original problem where it died and seals, crank etc. were replaced. Since then starting is very unreliable and have had problems with idling, to the point where I had to keep revving it when stationary or would die in a few seconds. Messed about with the idle screw to fix that a few weeks ago but was doing the same again other day until I tightened it as much as I could and okay now. So it appears to be working it's way loose over a short period of time. Is the way the screw is sitting against the small plate correct in the pic?
It was starting fine prior to that original problem and post being run-in. One thing is though that ever since then the resistance (compression?) when kicking it over is a lot less. It used to take a significant amount of force before it would kick-over.
Scoot shop said to run-it in a bit more with the new seals, crank and bearings. Not sure how long for, will check. Gave it short blasts on open roads and had it at 97KPH for a few seconds flat out (according to the new SIP iPhone app anyway). Can probably cruise happily at about 80KPH which is a little bit dissapointing as was told to expect it to keep up with Vespa P200s without problem. Can live with that though if it doesn't seize.
A few days ago I noticed it was leaking a small amount of petrol when the tap was on (main or reserve). Investigated and was coming from where the fuel pipe connects to the carb. Just tightened that screw and sorted. Guess it just worked loose with the vibrations?
Also got a problem with the kickstart, in that it keeps wanting to fall off! It did a few weeks ago and I just loosened the bolt and put it back on with a rubber hammer. Within a few weeks though it wasn't flush at all so done the same again, the problem is getting worse as within a few days it isn't sitting flush and will eventually come straight off. Can see that a couple of a teeth are a bit blunt and worn. Take it engine would have to be split completely to change this and what part is the shaft exactly? This isn't helped by the excessive amount of kicks it is taking sometimes to get the bugger going!
When I was investigating the petrol leak I noticed that the petrol tap lever is catching on another cable when being turned and has caused the outer bit of this cable to come loose. What is it? You can see it in the pic.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/devo-mcduf ... 727157712/
Like Ian Brown said Monty, Manchester has everything but a beach. I don't fancy giving up Sydney to surf down the ship canal :freak:
Sorry for the late reply Monty, work has been full on. Got some time to have a proper butchers and give the old girl a bit of TLC at the weekend though.
If I give it no choke at first it doesn't want to know. It is a bit nippier here than you'd expect, half the temperature of Manchester at the moment but it is pissin down in both cities! When starting I leave the throttle until the engine gets going then I give it some or it dies. When I can't start it it doesn't really get to that point. In most cases I can get it going now but can take a lot of messing about. Can sometimes help if I leave the tap off and kick it over a few times, wouldn't that mean it is flooded though? I pretty much always turn the tap off after stopping. Can't really see much of a pattern as can be a couple of kicks sometimes or 20. When I can't get it going I have mastered the art of the hill-start at least.
Just read back in Sideout's post about disconnecting the rubber elbow. Forgot to try that, will give it a go.
It runs pretty well if I can get it going. Requires very high revs before the power really kicks-in though but is quite nippy. It was fully run-in before the original problem where it died and seals, crank etc. were replaced. Since then starting is very unreliable and have had problems with idling, to the point where I had to keep revving it when stationary or would die in a few seconds. Messed about with the idle screw to fix that a few weeks ago but was doing the same again other day until I tightened it as much as I could and okay now. So it appears to be working it's way loose over a short period of time. Is the way the screw is sitting against the small plate correct in the pic?
It was starting fine prior to that original problem and post being run-in. One thing is though that ever since then the resistance (compression?) when kicking it over is a lot less. It used to take a significant amount of force before it would kick-over.
Scoot shop said to run-it in a bit more with the new seals, crank and bearings. Not sure how long for, will check. Gave it short blasts on open roads and had it at 97KPH for a few seconds flat out (according to the new SIP iPhone app anyway). Can probably cruise happily at about 80KPH which is a little bit dissapointing as was told to expect it to keep up with Vespa P200s without problem. Can live with that though if it doesn't seize.
A few days ago I noticed it was leaking a small amount of petrol when the tap was on (main or reserve). Investigated and was coming from where the fuel pipe connects to the carb. Just tightened that screw and sorted. Guess it just worked loose with the vibrations?
Also got a problem with the kickstart, in that it keeps wanting to fall off! It did a few weeks ago and I just loosened the bolt and put it back on with a rubber hammer. Within a few weeks though it wasn't flush at all so done the same again, the problem is getting worse as within a few days it isn't sitting flush and will eventually come straight off. Can see that a couple of a teeth are a bit blunt and worn. Take it engine would have to be split completely to change this and what part is the shaft exactly? This isn't helped by the excessive amount of kicks it is taking sometimes to get the bugger going!
When I was investigating the petrol leak I noticed that the petrol tap lever is catching on another cable when being turned and has caused the outer bit of this cable to come loose. What is it? You can see it in the pic.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/devo-mcduf ... 727157712/
Like Ian Brown said Monty, Manchester has everything but a beach. I don't fancy giving up Sydney to surf down the ship canal :freak:
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warts
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An engine needs ignition, a bright spark at the right time - electric magic. Fuel, a mix of hydrocarbons and air in the correct proportions - chemical and physics magic. Finally it needs compression - mechanical magic.
You mention lack of the latter, the rings in particular can be damaged fairly easily, especially on a 2T.
As you have had a bit of a rebuild, I would re check this as it is easy and definitive. The fact you have been chasing all over the spark and fuel side is another indicator. I take it you can't borrow a carb - proper, known to work fine one- from a mate? Or put yours on a known working bike. Check for air leaks, gaskets damaged, parts seated as they should, choke, throttle cable, nothing should be forced.
You will sort it out once you work through methodically - satistically fuel (its good stuff I take it? correct ratio and all) is the biggest buggaboo with internal combustion engines, although the now mismash of 40/50 year old stuff which is called upon to light the fire may distort the curve of standard deviation WRT old lambrettas.
Don't take anything as read, or at face value, check and check again.
If the three conditions above are met, then internal combustion is inevitable.
You mention lack of the latter, the rings in particular can be damaged fairly easily, especially on a 2T.
As you have had a bit of a rebuild, I would re check this as it is easy and definitive. The fact you have been chasing all over the spark and fuel side is another indicator. I take it you can't borrow a carb - proper, known to work fine one- from a mate? Or put yours on a known working bike. Check for air leaks, gaskets damaged, parts seated as they should, choke, throttle cable, nothing should be forced.
You will sort it out once you work through methodically - satistically fuel (its good stuff I take it? correct ratio and all) is the biggest buggaboo with internal combustion engines, although the now mismash of 40/50 year old stuff which is called upon to light the fire may distort the curve of standard deviation WRT old lambrettas.
Don't take anything as read, or at face value, check and check again.
If the three conditions above are met, then internal combustion is inevitable.
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coaster
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THAT is the choke cable which is being forced sideways by the fuel tap rod and as you already noticed is also being snagged by the splitpin. Someone already mentioned the choke being on and your reply to that was that it wouldn't run as well as it did if the choke WAS on. However, it only has to be slightly on to give you exactly the problem that you have. You should be able to feel some slack in the choke cable, the cable is attached to a small piston that seals of the choke jet when tunrned off. If it isn't sealing for any reason it will cause the engine to run slightly rich but will probably only be noticable at small throttle openings. Definately warants further investigation of the choke and see if you can angle the rod to miss the choke, you can usuakky adjust it to work at quite an angle provided you have enough length in the rod.Devo McDuff wrote:When I was investigating the petrol leak I noticed that the petrol tap lever is catching on another cable when being turned and has caused the outer bit of this cable to come loose. What is it? You can see it in the pic.
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crooky
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had the exact same with my scoot a jetex which had done 5000+ miles suddenly started doing exactly the same. Changed to a 28mm delly got that sorted and suddenly stared to struggle to start warm changed the plug setting the gap at a tight .5mm and starts first kick now so frustrating but i'm sure you'll get it sorted. good luck with it
The man who doesn't read has no advantage over the man who can't read
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Devo McDuff
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Hey,
Coaster - My reply wasn't a statement but a question, was just asking if it would not run as well with the choke on. Freely admit I'm a complete novice with this. Can feel the slack in the choke and tried adjusting the cable and fuel tap rod to get them out of each others way but it wasn't happening, the brass part of the choke just kept coming off.
I couldn't test properly until I sorted the throttle cable which I thought had snapped but on inspection the head on the outer cable has come away from the rest of the cable (as in the pic below) and when the throttle is pushed forward past a certain point the head lifts and flicks the cable out until it unhooks. Either that or I have just attached it to the pulley wrong! Have got it on but just need to be careful until I replace the outer. Managed to cause the rear light to come on and off sporadically now while sorting this though, not sure what the cause is. Doh!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/devo-mcduff/7684780178/
Have noticed that if I start the engine with the tap off altogether it does seem to start better which you suggested earlier, thought I had tried that but maybe not. Can't say conclusively though until I do some more testing when have sorted the throttle properly.
There are cable ties around both ends of the carb rubber. Is that normal or just it normally fit without these? Will grab some more before cutting them so I can secure it properly afterwards.
Warts - Could the rings be damaged without a seize? When I had the issue where I lost compression and couldn't start it (and ultimately it went in the shop and had new seals amongst other things) this was after a short low speed run around town. It was not long run-in and had not been thrashed or anything.
Coaster - My reply wasn't a statement but a question, was just asking if it would not run as well with the choke on. Freely admit I'm a complete novice with this. Can feel the slack in the choke and tried adjusting the cable and fuel tap rod to get them out of each others way but it wasn't happening, the brass part of the choke just kept coming off.
I couldn't test properly until I sorted the throttle cable which I thought had snapped but on inspection the head on the outer cable has come away from the rest of the cable (as in the pic below) and when the throttle is pushed forward past a certain point the head lifts and flicks the cable out until it unhooks. Either that or I have just attached it to the pulley wrong! Have got it on but just need to be careful until I replace the outer. Managed to cause the rear light to come on and off sporadically now while sorting this though, not sure what the cause is. Doh!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/devo-mcduff/7684780178/
Have noticed that if I start the engine with the tap off altogether it does seem to start better which you suggested earlier, thought I had tried that but maybe not. Can't say conclusively though until I do some more testing when have sorted the throttle properly.
There are cable ties around both ends of the carb rubber. Is that normal or just it normally fit without these? Will grab some more before cutting them so I can secure it properly afterwards.
Warts - Could the rings be damaged without a seize? When I had the issue where I lost compression and couldn't start it (and ultimately it went in the shop and had new seals amongst other things) this was after a short low speed run around town. It was not long run-in and had not been thrashed or anything.