Scooterotica

Any torque graphs available?
how did the a/f ratio look between the pipes did they stay consistent or run leaner/richer
the scootering test was done with 185 ex duration
whats the stage 4 200 ex duration
the avanti will be around 176 so will make an interesting mix of tests

fred wrote:torque comparisons would be helpfull
fred

All in due course, we have lots of stuff to test/compare/review etc, and oodles of information to compile, so the writeups will flow as soon as we get opportunity between jobs

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I had a Taffy pipe on my standardish ts1225 which gave just over 20hp and 16ft/lb, I had JB do a stage 2 tune and fitted a 60mm crank making it a 230. I ran the engine in on the taffy as the Franny's were on order. With the taffy pipe on it wouldnt rev past 7800 put you could feel that it was being held back.

When the Franny turned up went back to JB, fitted the pipe and dyno'd it.
Dyno spat out 26hp @ 8600 and 17ft/lb @ 8200.

I know I've gone from a touring set up up to a road/race set up - but hell its more fun!

Fantastic pipe imo

:fb: :fb: :fb:

Thought I recognised that GP in your Avatar, How you doing James not seen you in a long while.
Mike

jimmo wrote:I had a Taffy pipe on my standardish ts1225 which gave just over 20hp and 16ft/lb, I had JB do a stage 2 tune and fitted a 60mm crank making it a 230. I ran the engine in on the taffy as the Franny's were on order. With the taffy pipe on it wouldnt rev past 7800 put you could feel that it was being held back.

When the Franny turned up went back to JB, fitted the pipe and dyno'd it.
Dyno spat out 26hp @ 8600 and 17ft/lb @ 8200.

I know I've gone from a touring set up up to a road/race set up - but hell its more fun!

Fantastic pipe imo

:fb: :fb: :fb:

did you dyno the engine after tuning but before fitting the franspeed (with the taffy so there is a direct comparison between pipes)?

cheers
mick

OK, sorry for delay....Xmas, New Year and booze got in the way of scootering!! lol

Tests will resume next week, got a whole batch of exhausts to put up against the Franspeed, and several different engines to try them on.....will keep you posted as and when we get the results through, just gotta fit this and all the other topics/projects/reports in that we review/write up inbetween jobs that actually pay a wage!! LOL......its a thankless task taking so many days out to test all this stuff and report back to everyone on the forum, and give pics/graphs/results, answer questions and go back and test other stuff when we get those questions, and it doesn't pay a wage.....but that's what we started the forum for, so that's what we do....and secretly i love doing it all anyway!! ))))))

So......keep the questions coming, and as i say...we will answer as many as we can, and give the answers if we have them......cheers.

Right, here we go........

As you will have seen from our other recent long term test on the new Ron Moss Avanti TT3 kit, we fitted the cylinder kit to Andys GP that we had previously run the pipe test on at the beginning of this thread (Franspeed Race vs ADS Fast-Road vs PM). Now with the Avanti kit fitted we can see the scooter is kicking out a very respectable 22bhp on the Franspeed Race pipe, which for a bolt on 'off the shelf' kit is very respectable, and there is certainly more to come from that kit as we go along (keep an eye on that separate thread ). But in the meantime, we placed a couple of other pipes on the machine, to see how they would compare. The main thrust of the Avanti kit in standard trim is as a fast, but low revving touring kit, that pulls strongly from very low down and can handle decent gearing......which makes for a very pleasurable and smooth ride. So with that in mind, it seemed to make sense to try 'touring' exhausts against the Franspeed on this set up. See results below:


What you are looking at here is a comparison between 3 exhausts on the Avanti TT3 kit, the pipes being:

Red: Franspeed Race
Blue: ADS Touring Pipe
Green: AF Clubman

BHP

Red: Franspeed Race @ 22bhp
Blue: ADS Touring Pipe @ 19bhp
Green: AF Clubman @ 14bhp

Torque

Red: Franspeed Race @ 17ft-lbs
Blue: ADS Touring Pipe @16ft-lbs
Green: AF Clubman @ 12ft-lbs

Its quite interesting to see how pipes are labelled 'race' and 'tour' etc, when the fact of the matter is......some pipes are quite versatile and others are very 'fixed' in how they will perform, and the application of pipes to different states of tune and types of cylinder outline this quite well.

We can see that the Franspeed race pulls very strongly from low down, and peaks at approx 6900rpm @ 22bhp, and this is called a 'race' pipe? lol. Yet how perfectly it compliments the touring setup of the Avanti kit to pull the best power curve out of it! Conversely, the ADS touring pipe doesn't really do anything to improve the 'touring' aspect of this kit, in fact in my opinion it actually kills the last 1000rpm, which will equate to circa 10mph at top end, and given that the torque and bhp curves of the Franspeed are actually stronger than the ADS Tour pipe, the Franspeed should be able to pull just about identical gearing no problems! You can see that the ADS makes peak torque at 6000rpm, and the Franspeed matches this within 200rpm! But then goes on to hold that power significantly longer than the ADS, until past 7000rpm! So the same scooter, with identical gearing will pull in an almost identical fashion up to 6000rpm with both pipes, but the Franspeed race will continue to pull another 1000rpm or so (10mph) at top end.

The last of the pipes is an AF Clubman, and rather predictably it performs the poorest....carving a massive chunk out of the kits power, reducing it from 22bhp to 14bhp. I know some people like the look/sound of these exhausts.....but i'm not a fan!! lol.

So hopefully an insight into how various exhausts perform on different engines, and improvements some can make over others. The ADS fast road was a favourite of mine for getting a good BHP kick out of a tuned engine, and has now been surpassed by the formidable Franspeed Race pipe for that purpose, we are getting better results with this pipe on just about all applications we test it on, see the test on Andys tuned 200 cylinder on the 1st page of this thread for just one example. Interestingly also, whilst its called a race pipe, in my opinion the Franspeed Race beats the 'tour' piped that are out there too! The main contender being the ADS Tour pipe which is coming up short on rpm/peak power in this test. I must say however, in its defence.......no pipe tames an over tuned cylinder quite as well as an ADS tour pipe. We've had quite a few customer in that have had years of screaming TS1 engines under their belts, that now want something a bit more sedate and easy to ride.....and a simple change of pipe (to an ADS tourer) and gearing can achieve this quite well. But as far as the AvantiTT3 kit in this test is concerned, the Franspeed Race is king thus far and improves on most other pipes in a variety of applications, and the same can be said for other tuned engines we have tried it on (TS1's, cast iron etc), it really is a versatile pipe, and if anyone out there has something to beat it....................we'd like to know!! lol

interesting text to accompany the dyno
you said the franny race has the best power curve but if a customer wants to make his high tuned engine more sedatehe can put an ADS tourer on and raise the gearing.

looking at the dyno above does the slight increase in bhp/tourque in the mid range of the ADS justify changing from a franspeed race and loosing the top end

cheers
mick

Is there any chance of you getting hold of a Ron Moss Avanti Clubman and the franspeed Avanti to try ? As their names suggest they are designed for this barrel ?

mickdale wrote:interesting text to accompany the dyno
you said the franny race has the best power curve but if a customer wants to make his high tuned engine more sedatehe can put an ADS tourer on and raise the gearing.

Yes, meaning that in this application on a fast-touring engine (the Avanti) in my opinion, the pipe labelled 'tour' (ADS) is not the best choice, in my opinion, the pipe labelled 'race' (Franspeed) is the best, as it has practically all of the low down curve of the ADS, but also an additional 1000rpm and 3bhp on tap if required, and both should pull similar gearing.

However, on reed-valve engines which have been taken to a high state of tune, and where the customer wants to 'tame' that engine and have something very low revving, which pulls gearing rather than revs......the ADS works very well to do accomplish that. I find the ADS Tour pipe a bit of a one-trick pony in that respect, although it does perform that one trick very well. However, i feel the point i was making has been missed in this respect, i was more interested in the fact that many customers would overlook the Franspeed pipe for the Avanti as they may be put off by the word 'race', and instead choose the ADS pipe because its called a 'Tour' pipe....when in fact, i feel the Franspeed actually suits the Avanti kit better. Thats all.

mickdale wrote:looking at the dyno above does the slight increase in bhp/tourque in the mid range of the ADS justify changing from a franspeed race and loosing the top end

No....not in my opinion, others may disagree. But i feel that slight mid range difference will rarely be actuall felt on the road (in real terms) and the Franspeed catches the ADS up 200rpm later on anyway, but has much more to give at the end of the rev range, which is still a very low 6900rpm!