It does look like a copy but there is a main differance one machined and other cast, so can you say they are the same they are using two different metalogies and production ???
Not to fuel the fire what do others think
If you look at the frame clearing area, I think they're different. IMO they are two different manifolds designed to do the same job with a plate manifold attached. The restraints of designing something to do this function in this way would make them very similar in shape, and thay are manufacture using very different methods. BTW I have an LTH one but did wonder why it wasn't cast in the first place
teamsequipe wrote:There's a HUGE difference between being inspired by a similar product, and someone simply scanning an item and copying it exactly don't you agree ? There's such a thing as intellectual property.................. Jesus ! I haven't even bought any manifolds yet and someone's having a go FFS !
Yes! That was my point.
I'd make the same point if I saw someone copying your sticker designs and selling them as their own. I'm a defender of intellectual property - I was a designer for 15 years and have had my work ripped off umpteen times. With some Lambretta parts though there are only so many shapes or variations that are possible so it gets into a grey area. Are there enough manifolds and manifold shapes/sizes out there to argue this is the only way it can be designed?
I can't say for certain if the manifolds are the same or not without holding them in my hand. If the item has simply been cast from the original LTH manifold, I don't think that's right personally.
Anyway - not a personal attack, just an interesting discussion
Last edited by MarkH on Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
i have been speaking to jimmers about this for the last year and i dont believe he has copied anything .how many types of manifold can there be for a ts1 ?????
give the man some credit FFS
not really taking a side here but here is something interesting from the old MB site about piston ported inlets:
"When the CDC Dellorto 150 inlet manifold dried up there was still a need for them!
So we had a pattern made.
At the same time we beefed up the manifold so we could machine it down to suit either a Dellorto 26, 28 or 30mm rubber or solidly mounted carb or Amal 28, 30, 32 or 34mm carbs or now the Dellorto VHSA 28, 30 or 32mm."
So isn't MB just stealing someone else's design? Sure they claim that the original went out of stock, but could'nt you just claim that the LTH is too hard to come by (to high a price or what ever excuse you want to use) so you had to make your own?
What about say, ScootRS pipes? Everyone (at least here in NA) slags them off as being crap rip offs from a PM pipe. When you look at Dyno charts they perform almost the same, so not total crap. And as for being a knock off, yes from what I can tell they are, but how many other pipe manufacturers use the same cone dimensions but just cut them up a bit different? When you see some of the pipe shoot outs there are a lot of pipes with the exact same HP/torque curve…hmmm. Everyone loves JL pipes, but did he come up with a lot of those pipes? No, does he give Taffspeed and Krega a cut on the money for every one of the pipes he sells that came from their designs? I don't think so.
i was going to comment earlier when i saw "fishi"s non constructive comment to stageman,s simple question,has anybody answered it??
ive been frustrated a few times on here when ive asked a question and got opinions and not facts!...the simple fact is the customer as always has a choice...weather the product as been ripped off or not,to me if the item has no detrement to safety why worry!
im not trying to get personel with anyone,i just think peoples answers should be answered with facts or constructive opinions.
when I asked the question I didn´t realise jimmers job looked very very VERY similar to the one mady by gravedigger and sold by LTH. without having seen either one in the flesh I agree they certainly look similar.
but are they ? can anyone comment ?
OT on: regards the general discussion and not aimed at this particular product: must admit I´m not a great fan of copying (to put it mildly) except for when one manufacturer keeps doing the same s@*%& for 20 years and someone picks up on the design and / or function and improves it e.g. the original AF manifold which could have been improved upon but has never been so that when u buy one u need endless fettling to fit it under the frame.... just an example. OT off.
there is nothing wrong with pattern parts ,the uk is full of them,
remember the uk bike market ,its a long time ago ,the nips took over this big style and are still infront,they are doing the same with cars,
i must admit the cnc one shines and will probably not break off but then i do not know of any sand cast old style amal ones snapping off,they are probably able to do the same job and as efficient but for a lot less cost!
regards
joe
It looks a LOT like harald gravedigger has been copied. I've been wondering how long it would take someone in England to wake up to just how good Harald is at developing new and better ways to make fully finished tuning products for our scooters, now it looks like someone has. I suppose we will be seeing cast versions of his cylinder heads next
Harald "gravedigger" is a very skilled machinist, a scooterist and a decent bloke who more than once has sent cylinder heads to me before i've had a chance to pay him (i suppose trusting a fellow scooterist he hasn't met is strange these days?)
Its a shame that this has happened.
of the gravediggers orginal