Series 2 hard to kick over

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Grumpy225
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HxPaul wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:02 am The kickstart pedal on series 1 and 2 is considerably shorter than a series 3,I think that has a lot to do with it.
I think that’s part of it but it feels more like an alignment/chain/gear type problem. Will get on it today. It’s been too hot to mess with anything, 105f yesterday
Grumpy225
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EddieStone wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:07 am The kickstart tab isn't fouling on the exhaust pipe, is it?
Nope, this problem is at the beginning of the kick stroke.
wrecklessrobbie
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Did the longer kickstarter cure the problem?
Grumpy225
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wrecklessrobbie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:07 pm Did the longer kickstarter cure the problem?
No it didn't. I even tried putting the S3 case cover on the motor (w/SX lever) and the exact same problem happened. The kick feels like it's locked. It never even gets to making the compression. After a couple of bumps on it the lever works like it should. It really feels like a chain/sprocket issue.
wrecklessrobbie
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I have a gp200 case with a series 2 chain case cover.
It was built by Af.
15 front sprocket 46 clutch rapido 200 road 26mm jettex carb. Nothing radical not a fire breathing monster just hoping for fairly bullet proof.
When i kick it over it sometimes feels like its jammed. So i keep on with it and it sometimes spins. Last year i was trying to start it and it would not start. I ended shearing the kick start quadrant off.
New kick start quadrant fitted.
Advised to put a new stand on it as well. New stand fitted to give it more height for the kick start to operate.
Still no different.
On sunday was out for a ride 30 miles maybe.
Stopped for 10 mins. Tried to start would not kick over. Feels like it either jamming or not turning the fly wheel.
Took the plug out turns great. Plug in will not spin it right.
I was trying that much i have ended up with a bent stand on the kickstart side and i mean almost vertical to the ground pointing forward.
One fooked tendon on my right leg and scars on my left leg from trying to bump it off and catching it on the kickstart.
Sorry to hear about your problem your not the only one.
Im at a loss with mine.
I have put in the shed locked it up and hobbled away.
Am desperately trying to resist the urge to set it on fire.
At least i know that a longer kickstarter is not the answer.
Grumpy225
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wrecklessrobbie wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:38 pm I have a gp200 case with a series 2 chain case cover.
It was built by Af.
15 front sprocket 46 clutch rapido 200 road 26mm jettex carb. Nothing radical not a fire breathing monster just hoping for fairly bullet proof.
When i kick it over it sometimes feels like its jammed. So i keep on with it and it sometimes spins. Last year i was trying to start it and it would not start. I ended shearing the kick start quadrant off.
New kick start quadrant fitted.
Advised to put a new stand on it as well. New stand fitted to give it more height for the kick start to operate.
Still no different.
On sunday was out for a ride 30 miles maybe.
Stopped for 10 mins. Tried to start would not kick over. Feels like it either jamming or not turning the fly wheel.
Took the plug out turns great. Plug in will not spin it right.
I was trying that much i have ended up with a bent stand on the kickstart side and i mean almost vertical to the ground pointing forward.
One fooked tendon on my right leg and scars on my left leg from trying to bump it off and catching it on the kickstart.
Sorry to hear about your problem your not the only one.
Im at a loss with mine.
I have put in the shed locked it up and hobbled away.
Am desperately trying to resist the urge to set it on fire.
At least i know that a longer kickstarter is not the answer.
At least I'm not the only one here. I'm going to dive in to it more this weekend and see if there is an alignment issue or what. I'm trying to find a junker case cover to modify in to a tool just to check this problem
Warkton Tornado No.1
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MightyGem wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:08 pm I have a similar problem with my 150 series 2 that was given a stage 4 175 conversion. At times I have to my whole weight on the kickstart to get it to go down.
I reworked one of those kits. They need a Hell of a lot of tidying as they are really rough. The compression was ridiculously high, so the bowl had to be enlarged significantly. I find most modified engines have too high a compression ratio.

Anyway, with any engine hard to kick over, I would remove the plug & see how easily it pushes in first & second gear. If all feels reasonable, refit the plug & try bumping in second then first. That should give an idea of the compression ratio/ gearing, as either will make kickstarting more difficult, one by being too high, the other too low. Bumping should be done by selecting the gear, rolling just past compression, pulling the clutch in then pushing prior to dumping the clutch. I say that because crashing into first or second just via the gearchange without the clutch pulled in will break teeth.

Finally, my preference with kickstarting is to have the bike off the stand, leant over to the left whilst straddling it so that you can get more 'kick' than when on the stand.
wrecklessrobbie
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viewtopic.php?t=36779

I suspect in my case i have problems elsewhere, either a carb not fit for purpose, a poor ignition system or broken piston ring.

I suspect user error can also be attached to me in that i am too vigorous in using the kickstart. If it doesnt fire the harder i use it.
I did wonder if compression and also the resting position of the piston in the barrel had anything to do with the mechanism jamming or slipping due to a form of airlock.
As for bumping off a scooter...im becoming an expert. Having run for nearly a mile with it on sunday, finally getting it running but unable to let the revs drop. As soon as i let off the revs my scooter cuts out.
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HxPaul
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I bought a kickstart lever from KTFScooters.The kickstart lever is to fit a series1/2 with series 1/2 sidecase but it is the same length as a series 3 and it has made a difference.
Grumpy225
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Front sprocket sits .006” (.1524mm) taller than the rear. According to sticky’s that all lines up.

Rear measured at 15.34mm across the teeth
Front (BGM17) 15.55mm

1.5mm shin behind the rear sprocket. No oil thrower on the front since it’s a S1 case.

Clutch inner and outer spin free when torqued to spec.

It looks like it all lines up correctly to me.
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