FOXHAT 260's

Anything related to Lambrettas... ask tech questions, post helpful info, or just read and learn.
cezeta
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Ian Hepworth wrote:
tony wrote:I think the hp figure is a big selling point for any tuner. (In fact torque is just as if not more important to see how a motor really performs.) Most tuners websites or adverts have reference (and rightly so if they know their beans) to power output, and what they can do for you etc. Tuning/hi performance is their business after all. I understand the point about how motors speak for themselves but this is a fairly large uk market here and If tuning was my business and I had no other way of 'showing off' my work in the advertising sense other than word of mouth then I would look at websites and dyno graphs and power outputs.
I don't think most people understand a dyno graph so using them as a sales method is of limited use.
Dyno graphs with speed along the bottom are pretty much useless and create the "it pulled 129 mph on the dyno" which makes you want to say "do you often only ride on the flat in a vacuum with no wind resistance".
Dyno graphs with no scales at all (the famous AF RB one) are utterly useless.

The HP figure is sadly all most people understand, high HP is great for the track where you change the gearing and pipe to suit the track but your average scooterist with Mrs on the back and half a ton of luggage needs torque. High HP for the road is good but it's got to be useable. If an engine is kicking in at 8k it's not going to nice to ride on the road.

If you compare it to buying a computer, you might see a chart showing that this machine is 4 times faster than so and so but all you really want to know is will it let you burn a cd while you are typing a letter with something downloading in the background - i.e. you want the reassurance that it will do what you want it to.
i cant disagree with this, having spent a load of dosh to DE TUNE my road race tune in the search for torque over bhp.

cc s rule with torque on tap with power outside the power band so the full rev range can be used and so the scooter will pull away from a set of lights without a racket.
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Adspeed
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Juan wrote:I don't care about alleged high power 'Bretta motors from York who stole their name from a p155 poor advert featuring some Redneck. I say ban Adam, he's a tw@7. :mrgreen:
:lol: 8-) Knew I could rely on you boss :moon: :D
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tony
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Ian Hepworth wrote:
tony wrote:I think the hp figure is a big selling point for any tuner. (In fact torque is just as if not more important to see how a motor really performs.) Most tuners websites or adverts have reference (and rightly so if they know their beans) to power output, and what they can do for you etc. Tuning/hi performance is their business after all. I understand the point about how motors speak for themselves but this is a fairly large uk market here and If tuning was my business and I had no other way of 'showing off' my work in the advertising sense other than word of mouth then I would look at websites and dyno graphs and power outputs.
I don't think most people understand a dyno graph so using them as a sales method is of limited use.
Dyno graphs with speed along the bottom are pretty much useless and create the "it pulled 129 mph on the dyno" which makes you want to say "do you often only ride on the flat in a vacuum with no wind resistance".
Dyno graphs with no scales at all (the famous AF RB one) are utterly useless.

The HP figure is sadly all most people understand, high HP is great for the track where you change the gearing and pipe to suit the track but your average scooterist with Mrs on the back and half a ton of luggage needs torque. High HP for the road is good but it's got to be useable. If an engine is kicking in at 8k it's not going to nice to ride on the road.

If you compare it to buying a computer, you might see a chart showing that this machine is 4 times faster than so and so but all you really want to know is will it let you burn a cd while you are typing a letter with something downloading in the background - i.e. you want the reassurance that it will do what you want it to.
Quoting big figures is indeed a selling point to the man in the street.
Even Mark is mentioning up to 37hp on his website from his racetour products. There is no graph but thats not really needed because as you say how many people know how to read them? Its the high figure that will attract the everyday rider who is looking to go fast.
Sponsors: Performance Tuning. Ve Uk. Scooter Center Koln. LTH . DRT
Ian Hepworth

And most people don't ride as fast as they say they want to.

We get lots of queries for engines to "do a genuine ton" etc. And these people ride with folk on std px125s so they don't need that spec, they just think they need it.
Matty
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Ian Hepworth wrote:And most people don't ride as fast as they say they want to.

We get lots of queries for engines to "do a genuine ton" etc. And these people ride with folk on std px125s so they don't need that spec, they just think they need it.
I guess it's a form of mechanical vanity with some people. All of the rallies I've ridden to with other riders have all been ridden at around 60mph. However, I once rode back with the Dorking lot from Whitley Bay in 1991 with the throttle pulled to the stop because we wanted to get back to Surrey in a hurry. We were slipstreaming lorries and coaches on the A1 and swapping lanes all the time to keep the speed up. Great fun when you're young but I don't think I'd do that now.
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''If you compare it to buying a computer, you might see a chart showing that this machine is 4 times faster than so and so but all you really want to know is will it let you burn a cd while you are typing a letter with something downloading in the background - i.e. you want the reassurance that it will do what you want it to.''

thought id get in on the rant :frog:

if your were looking for a new tv, would you compare the spec sheets to see what the best spec you could get for your money that best suits you was? if you then bought sadi tv, got it home and was not as per spec sheet would you return it?

if someone is going to spend thousands of their hard earnt cash on their pride and joy, they need to be sure they are getting the best value for money they can. also if a tuner charges £x for a motor with 25 torque how are they to know thats definately what they are getting if its not proven? also a dyno graph is a piece of evidence that a/ the bike is set up corrctly, b/ its what you paid for and c/ a good free advert that the company in question has the skill and knowhow to build a customer what they want! d/ the ultimate paper evidence that one blokes scooter is faster than his mate's one :baddevil:

i take my bike to 2x places only, they are my personal approved tuners and they both ALWAYS back up their work with a dyno printout.

however, if anyone is after a 65bhp, 48.5lb engine then please speak to these guys! - www.bodgeitandscarperlambrettatuning.org but please note that they will not be supplying a dyno graph! :?

adspeed you might get banned for having an opinion, and if these guys pull the foxhat sticker off the side of their racer it will ruin the paintwork so shut up and eat your tuna :bouncyeng:
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Adspeed
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Word up DOG!!! :moon: :D 8-)

Tell you what if 37hp is right thats some achievement, if thats right then it suprises me Marks never put out a Gp4 race bike. Theres no better advertising really when ya up at the front week in week out!
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Andy Pickering
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IS IT ME OR AS THIS THREAD RUN ITS COURSE..... :evil:
Ricspeed, gone but never forgotten RIP my friend #59
joespeed
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Lam46 wrote:IS IT ME OR AS THIS THREAD RUN ITS COURSE..... :evil:
i think your right lam46 ,it has run its course you will have to wait a bit longer mr adspeed!
regards
joe
cezeta
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Adspeed wrote:Word up DOG!!! :moon: :D 8-)

Tell you what if 37hp is right thats some achievement, if thats right then it suprises me Marks never put out a Gp4 race bike. Theres no better advertising really when ya up at the front week in week out!

whos engines are at ther front of the track? charlie edmonds, who else?
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