Which Electronic Ignition Kit

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Cav
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Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:39 am

Cav wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:36 am
Just revisiting this thread. Can anyone give feedback on the Scootopia Electronic kit now that it's been out for a while. I'm just about to buy a new Electronic set up and the Scootopia kit seems to a good bet ?
Meant to add, engine is SX225 with MEC (GP taper) crank.

Warkton Tornado No.1
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Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:03 pm

Although I prefer the reliability that contact breaker ignitions ensure (I bet some of you didn't expect to see that said!) in conjunction with 12 v, I have been using electronic ignitions for decades, primarily through sporting connections.

Of all the various systems, undoubtedly the Lambretta specific electronic kits have proven the least reliable, a fact frequently confirmed via Forums such as this.

How can it be that a system designed to be unique to a Lambretta (even if it is a clone from an old Vespa) be bought a n such quantities yet have such an appalling record?

I cannot comment on certain makes, as I have no experience, but Kerist! Hadn't any manufacturing issues ought to have been solved by now?

Recently I fitted an AFR lightweight kit that started the bike first kick after an extensive build. That was with an old ex-racing Piaggio CDI lashed to the crankcase cover. Finishing the job & fitting the CDI that came with the kit, lovely spark, but no engine firing. So I went through my stock of four or five known CDI's & the only one that works with the kit is the old ex race one, yet the others work with other systems.

It is bizarre. I have a roll of proper copper core HT lead, various working plug caps of different manufacture & resistance & lots of plugs, though I now distrust NGK in comparison to Champion etc.

I don't know what the solution is to this problem of many of the Lambretta specific electronic ignitions coming with unreliability as standard & @ no extra cost, but quite honestly, not enough buyers are complaining in the right way. India directly may not be easy to resolve, but UK based sellers should be subject to some kind of scrutiny via Trading Standards.....

wintermod65
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Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:23 pm

I don't know what the solution is to this problem of many of the Lambretta specific electronic ignitions coming with unreliability as standard & @ no extra cost, but quite honestly, not enough buyers are complaining in the right way. India directly may not be easy to resolve, but UK based sellers should be subject to some kind of scrutiny via Trading Standards.....
[/quote]


i would suggest it would need a large number of people maybe an owners group pursuing a class action against the manufacturer/ supplier.

but if this took off i think we'd soon run out of places making parts!! .

what about the latest " 12 pole" Systems from Vape or Casa Ducati does anybody have any bad experiences with these systems ?

if not they must be the way to go for reliability at least

Grumpy225
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Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:36 pm

wintermod65 wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:23 pm


what about the latest " 12 pole" Systems from Vape or Casa Ducati does anybody have any bad experiences with these systems ?

if not they must be the way to go for reliability at least

I've set up and run one Casa Ducati and it's great. No issues at all and comes with all the bits. Makes for a very clean install. The downside is the sit at 23dbtdc until around 5k I think. So that might be a little hot for UK gas. This was on a stock dl150. Timing is not adjustable but they do retard at higher RPM. Flywheel holding tool is garbage. 2 pin type that doesn't hold worth a s**t. Setting up another one on a stock dl200 right now. Super bright lights, easy starting.

Vape is a nice looking kit and I'm setting one of those up also. Haven't run it yet but hope to fire it up soon. Going on a Gori200 touring kit with Sh22 and Casa bigbore. Not expecting any surprises but it will be a bit more hands on for the final set up.

Cav
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:40 am

All this apparent unreliability around electronic kits is a bit of let down. I had a major problem with one of the Spanish scoots I owned. The Ducati set up with heavy flywheel was great while it lasted but eventually sheared the crank taper. Overall it seems I've been lucky so far and never had any starting or running issues with electronic kits. However, I am now being plagued by blowing headlight bulbs which is proving difficult to sort out. Anyway I have gone ahead bought the Scootopia kit for my current rebuild, so fingers crossed. Would still appreciate any feedback on these kits though .

hendy
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:39 am

The quality of manufacturing really isn't up to the mark.

However, I can never understand why so few lambretta owners use a full DC system.

The real Achilles heal in the traditional arrangement is the low tension coil; going full DC does away with this. The second issue is AC regulation which is hard to control and is the reason for blown bulbs.

Going full DC is very easy, especially if done as part of a full rebuild. Parts are available from a huge number of alternative vehicles and manufacturers so even if you're still unable to face the idea of spares unavailability on long rides, you don't have to carry them as you can just find any old motorcycle dealer for them.

Warkton Tornado No.1
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:15 am

In all seriousness, a good ignition system allied to adequate power for lighting via a battery is my choice.

On the SX that I own, my intention was to build it in a manner that would be something available in the early 70's which was when I first commenced by ownership of Lambretta.

For me, that meant contact breaker ignition with 12 v DC rectification via Lucac rectifier & zenner diode.

However, I do have an Italian GP that when I get to rebuild it, may be 'compromised' via the use of an electronic CDI based system. A battery to supply lights in the event of a breakdown could well be a life saver, so that also would be my choice, as well as ensuring consistent bright lights.

For the moment, & from what I understand reading the many, many issues with off the shelf, Lambretta specific systems, the best budget system with durability would be OEM Piaggio PX flywheels & stators, the flywheel fan being the black plastic type grafted on in place. Fairly bulletproof & a nice weight.

However, having built & raced a few engines in my time, I know first hand the advantages of a variable ignition timing. Many years ago, I acquired a Motoplat internal rotor set up that advanced rapidly then retarded about 10 degrees over the Rev range. Ray Kemp had in turn got it from Terry Shepherd to try & couldn't get on with it. So he sent it to me, wrapped caringly in one of his old jumpers...... :lol:

Eventually, set better than the suggested timing, it was awesome in terms of drive out of a corner.

That sort of indicates my true belief in variable ignition, but would I, or anybody for that matter, want somebody else's' interpretation of advance & retard? I certainly wouldn't just want retard as most Lambretta systems are, having felt the benefits of the advance.

Where am I going with this?

Not sure, but Anthony Tambs is the person I would speak to.

He appears extremely knowledgable & enthusiastic. He also is not dismissive of contact breakers & has given advice freely about them & services/rebuilds them, which is some measure of his respect for the OEM Innocenti system.

I doubt that I would desire his current mainstay of 'mass produced(!)' systems, but that would be my starting point. Excuse the pun :roll:

I would desire an ignition curve that is programmable with a lightweight flywheel providing sufficient power rectified to top up a battery thereby ensuring some safety margin in the event of an engine stalling @ night.

wintermod65
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:57 pm

ive had my own share of recent ignition woes

bought a stratos / ducati ignition - when opened was sx type not GP taper .

ordered bgm dc for gp and got sent a sx type taper .

fitted bgm dc v4 system but wandered so timing wouldnt set

replaced bgm stator with tambs dc type ,

bgm wasel reg blew in 300 miles ,replaced with tambs dc reg .

got told this set up was iffy and might be causing other issues i was having

bought a casa ducati sport system to replace" iffy " set up but nobody could tell me how to wire it to full dc wiring/ switchgear .

only done 1000 miles in less then 5 months .

about to use the casa ducati system in a 265 sst so at least thats not been waste .

had 3 big bikes and a gts ( so all dc systems ) inbetween my spells on lambrettas and dont recall any stator type issues .

downside of dc system if get a short theres no protection for sip speedo as loose wire in headset fried mine

Cav
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:38 am

Cav wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:40 am
All this apparent unreliability around electronic kits is a bit of let down. I had a major problem with one of the Spanish scoots I owned. The Ducati set up with heavy flywheel was great while it lasted but eventually sheared the crank taper. Overall it seems I've been lucky so far and never had any starting or running issues with electronic kits. However, I am now being plagued by blowing headlight bulbs which is proving difficult to sort out. Anyway I have gone ahead bought the Scootopia kit for my current rebuild, so fingers crossed. Would still appreciate any feedback on these kits though .
Bit of a brain fart. It was actually a Motoplat I had on the Spanish scoot, not Ducati. Really heavy flywheel.

holty
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Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:22 am

i am about to fit one of the new vape systems which looks very good, but i was a bit annoyed that the box with all the parts in has everything, except a flywheel holding tool, surely it should come with the kit. pick height and alignment is normally a problem with lambretta electronic ignitions of the af and sil type, fixed a mates scooter recently by fitting a tambs external pick- up, i had removed a laminate and slotted the hole to get the pick up positioned correctly, that was with an af light flywheel.on my 290 lammy i run a bgm stator and only use the lighting coils to power a dc ignition from anthony tambs, and thats connected direct to the battery via a switch and relay, the stator just charges the battery via a wassell voltage regulator, i use an external pick- up with that as well. i have had breakdown with this system but they were all due to broken wires and bad connections in the wiring which ive fixed now. it does seem to be a minefield or lottery when it comes to ignitions, and i think a mix and match of this flywheel, that stator are part of the problem, i have got a varitronic system to go on my cutdown and these look to be better than the ducati type and indian oe stator and flyweel. as they dont have a low tension coil or a pick-up. there are pros and cons for all systems i suppose its deciding whats best for you. of course there are also ignitions like the zeeltronic that are fully programable and run directly from the battery like my tambs set up, ive not fitted one but have heard they are very good as you can programe whatever ignition map you want.

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