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JL3 Vs Micron

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:28 pm
by Jazzy
whats the charateristics of these two.

Re: JL3 Vs Micron

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:49 pm
by drunkmunkey6969
You might want to pad that question out a bit....on what scoot etc (cut down, full body) what engine (125 standard. 225 tuned etc) what carb (24mm TMX, 34mm Delly). what gearbox (LI125, GP200 etc).

The more detail, the better.

Plus...a JL3 is a popular exhaust....but not many have experience with Micron on a Lambo. On an Elsie may, but not on a Lambo. :D

Re: JL3 Vs Micron

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:37 am
by mawso
The MSC Micron hasn't been made in years, although, saying that they were extremely good pipes in their day. They appeared at the tail end of the DJ / Mickek era and before the Swifts and PM's really took expansions down CAD route. A friend runs one still on a Mugello and it pulls and sounds lovely. They are blown halves and seam welded togethor (I guess you already know what they look like anyway).

Ralph Saxelby used to use them on his road replica bikes with a different tailcan fitted a lot of the time. If they were good enough for "the man" then that's testament enough for the Micron.

I suppose they were an uprated/improved version of the original a bit of an allrounder. They were advertised as the MSC Micron, so maybe Dave Webster had a hand in the design? In regards to how they compare to the JL3 I would guess they would have similar bottom end chracteristics but the micron will rev on further.

I contacted Micron about 9 years back and was told they had discontinued them along time ago due to poor sales...that will have been the early 90's lean period in Scootering when everyone was out raving instead ha.

Re: JL3 Vs Micron

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 5:25 am
by Muttley McLadd
I had one on my TS1 that Ralph made for me (Micron). They were just a copy of an old villiers exhaust from the 60s..
Excellent bit of kit though. Well recommended if you can find someone to make you one. Much better than a JL3.

See if Ralph will make you one.

Re: JL3 Vs Micron

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 11:03 am
by Jazzy
I,ve Got a minter on my ts1 200
just struggles to pull top.
me 15st 6,3 running indian gp200 with 19 front standard wheel size.
also have a jl3 the bike is going to be a touring set up at present puts out about 19bhp.
was just wondering if the jl will help or is it a case of re gearing.

Re: JL3 Vs Micron

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 8:09 pm
by Muttley McLadd
How much torque have you got for that gearing?

I'd down gear it..

Re: JL3 Vs Micron

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:22 pm
by Jazzy
thanks for that.
going to try and get the bike over to jb,s this week will see if he can get a bit more out of it.

Re: JL3 Vs Micron

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:59 pm
by DJ 240
Micron Exhausts for Lambretta and Vespa models were evolved by Dave Webster of MSC. They were based on the very successful "DJ" Exhausts. BTW.... DJ came about because of Dave's initials. MSC approached Micron and asked their Paul Slater to replicate the exhaust, but made from pressings, rather than welded "lobster-back" cones. MSC always managed the production, and it was MSC, and Dave Webster himself, who rectified the first batch of 100 odd exhausts when they failed. Dave Hunter of Micron said that it was OK to weld the brackets directly to the main body, but Dave Webster, who was very sceptical of this construction, was proven right when loads broke. Working at MSC, Dave cut off the original brackets, welded large shaped 3mm patches to the body, and then re-attached the brackets. It was Dave who designed the special original Lambretta rear mounting, later copied by Taffspeed and others. One aspect of the rubber mounting design that Dave was proud of, was that the system didn't hang on the rubber mounts, instead it sat on top of them. In this way, all three mounts could fail,but although the system could then move about, it was unlikely to drop off. The MSC Micron was the only exhaust of the era that would fit a full-body Lambretta with minimal modification only to the floorboard. Dave retrieved the body welding fixture from Micron, and designed this to ensure that the sloppy fit was corrected, to ensure the chamber was assembled to very tight tolerances and a perfect snug fit. The person trying to buy an MSC micron exhaust direct from Micron, could never have been successful, as Micron never had the brackets or the header pipes. These items were intentionally subcontracted by MSC, as a means to prevent unauthorised sales by Micron. Micron brought a standard of professionalism to scooter exhausts, and they were beautifully crafted in Bright Chrome, or the unique Black Chrome.There were some initial problems with the original mechanical muffler that restricted performance, but was strictly 100% legal. Once it was realised that everyone else was simply stamping the exhausts without ever having them tested, Micron went to the same absorption muffler that everyone still uses, but they were always fully noise legal when new. You may be interested to learn that Dave used the exact same "pod" (this is the name that Micron called the assembled main body) in his, and many other riders, Dj150 Group Three race championship winning bike. Micron exhausts were ordered by MSC in batches of 250 units, with around two thousand sold over the period, so the reply from Micron "Didn't sell" is cobblers. MSC paid £30k upfront for the sophisticated press tooling, with the legal proviso that this amount was to be reclaimed, set against future production. When MSC went to re-order the systems, they were advised that Micron management had taken a policy decision to cease all subcontract work. End of MSC Microns. Micron CLF have subsequently ceased trading. The Scorpion exhausts now sold, are copies of the Micron chamber, but Scorpion now manufacture all of the system in-house, and apart from some initial contact, MSC no longer have any input, though thet work closely with Nrian at Scorpion, and are still trying to persuade Scorion to up their game, and produce a better mounted system.

Re: JL3 Vs Micron

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:28 pm
by drunkmunkey6969
Great post, thanks! :D

Where is Dave Webster these days? Are you linked to him or MSC?

Thats a cracking bit of info, much appreciated.......where did you get it from?

Re: JL3 Vs Micron

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:32 pm
by sean brady scooters
great reply there................thanks.......