The Super Monza exposed.

[nelson pk]

And lastly; if I changed gearing and carb, then yes I believe mine will do 105mph @ around 8200 rpm, but would I want to, would I feck!

.

that would be be running 4.00 final drive gearing , 12.8mph/1000rpm, sorry but that would never happen with a full-bodied lambretta unless you have fitted a bike engine or have at least 45+bhp and 30+ tq.

Now speaking totally unconnected with any of those who ran at the top speed day, i do have a geniune interest in anything to do with scooter sprinting and top speeds, i know from my last 4 years sprinting, looking at the results something is wrong with the 105.6mph run. I do believe that the super monza did 101mph with 32+ bhp and 20+tq and was the first full-bodied lambretta to be officially recorded as doing over 100mph, so well done.
I and other sprinters know when you turn up at an event and start doing runs whether its top speed or 1/4 mile you can play about with jetting/gearing/timing etc it only change times speeds by small amounts , from looking at the official results the super monza did mid to high 90s then next day first run 105.6 mph then a few runs at 100 to 101 mph, the 105.6 is a timing error , if the final gear ratio is shared with us and the rpm reached it can be worked out what the top speed it was capable off . From looking at data ive collected of lambretta and vespa 1/4 mile times and top speeds you would need over 40bhp for a full-bodied 120kg lambretta to acheive 105 mph and thats why Erics did 104mph.

Lifted from the Cam Lam info on the super monza:

Super Monza Gear box : TV200 on 16/47 touring or 15/46 normal : Li 150 (NOT Spanish) 18/47 for top speed, 17/46 for normal use : GP200 (Indian manufactured NOT recommended) sprockets advised are 20/47.

Now as already said i run TV200 15/46 for mormal road use thats 4.4 final drive.......
You can go to 16/47 for high speed touring.......thats 4.27 not too far away from what you are saying and thats on road gearing for high speed touring..............

How many tuned scoots run 4.4 final drive for the road? Dont say a bog standard TV200!

[soosh]

How many tuned scoots run 4.4 final drive for the road? Dont say a bog standard TV200!

Very few indeed,infact I only know of one TS1 down the road from me that does.

[Adam_Winstone]

Mine does

[Darrell Taylor]

back fully connected,had my internet down and other storm damage to repair for last 4/5 days so ill try and reply to some questions asked and get the promised screenshots up etc.
ps apologies nelson for the last post,just reread it and was a bit off and know your a pretty neutral/fair contributor

[nelson pk]

And apologies to you Darrel with my reaction........ahh theres a lot of love in the room
Hope the storm damage wasn't too bad.

[jonno]

I raced against Jimmy at the Extreme Performance Bike weekend at Santa pod in Oct.I have a 34 bhpTS1 240,stripped down to basics,basically a skelly with Speedfight fairing.He beat me every run,good job we were in different classes He was running 15.2s with my best 15.2,usually mid 15s,and the last run of the day he popped in a 14.8.Speeds were mid 80s,though I did 88 and 89.I lost out on the starts, he pulled away better,obviously with better low down power.Mind you everyone does. I think he'd le-

[jonno]

I raced against Jimmy at the Extreme Performance Bike weekend at Santa pod in Oct.I have a 34 bhpTS1 240,stripped down to basics,basically a skelly with Speedfight fairing.He beat me every run,good job we were in different classes He was running 15.2s with my best 15.2,usually mid 15s,and the last run of the day he popped in a 14.8.Speeds were mid 80s,though I did 88 and 89.I lost out on the starts, he pulled away better,obviously with better low down power.Mind you everyone does. I think he'd left it as is from the Shootout.Less bhp but more useable.I think that's the point being made in some posts.

[Darrell Taylor]

And apologies to you Darrel with my reaction........ahh theres a lot of love in the room
Hope the storm damage wasn't too bad.

fence panels/tiles off workshop roof then went out in van and mice had nested under bonnet and eaten the diesel lines so broke down ,came in and phone lines down took 4 engineers to sort it ,outside light blown off , but all sorted now ta.
on the plus side fence panel missed van by an inch and roof tile blew off as i walked out the door to take a look ,just missed me head and i couldnt believe it as i caught it and saved it !!!!!

[tony]

Just to counter some of the insinuations about dynos, that only a step-test brake dyno is any good and it isn't possible to develop anything on an inertia dyno, can I point out a few things:

1. The Super Monza cylinder and exhaust were all developed on an inertia dyno

2. Charlie's championship-winning group 4 Lambretta was developed on an inertia dyno

3. Tony O'Brien's Falc SS90 was originally developed on an inertia dyno (as were all the Falc kits)

If an inertia dyno was no good at all for development then clearly none of these things would have been possible. It is only in the last year or so that Charlie has got an eddy current brake dyno (like PM tuning and Readspeed already had, and we have had for years). It is an improved tool allowing the engine to be tested for longer periods under load, and allowing for more accurate heating, fuelling and checking of timing etc, but the engine is still under load on an inertia dyno. On our inertia dyno the scooter has to accelerate a large-diameter drum that weighs 600kg - that is not a walk in the park.

Inertia dynos are still perfectly good tools capable of all the development listed above if you know how use them and how to interpret the results. Charlie has proved that.

My only point is that people should not get caught up with the "step testing is the only way" hype.

You can dig a hole with a spade or with a mini-digger. It might take longer with a spade but you can still achieve a perfectly acceptable result.

Just because someone has bought a digger it doesn't mean that everyone else has to throw their spades away, or that customers should only accept holes dug by a JCB. You might get a better and cheaper result from someone who is an expert with a shovel than someone who is an idiot with a digger...

Just saying...

Sticky.. You have your information completey wrong. Charlie's inertia dyno had a manual load device. All developement and setting up was done using this load device and not an inertia sweep run.
I suggest you give him a call.

[Speed Demon]

No, I do not have my information wrong at all.

Charley developed all those things with an inertia dyno and he used the foot brake on his dyno to add load to get more heat into the components.

I think it just proves my point about a clever spade operator (Charley) producing better results than an idiot driving an JCB.

Sticky