The Super Monza exposed.

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nelson pk
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Dono wrote:
tony wrote:Hi Steve.
Firstly it's not mine. I photographed it at least 6 months ago for an advert.
Yes it's an ultimate kit. The barrel is the same spec as Jimmy Winters 105.6 mph motor. Jimmy had the large carb (34 dellorto)option and the various manifolds available can be seen.



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Title = The Super Monza exposed. to Quote tony = The barrel is the same spec as Jimmy Winters 105.6 mph motor!!!

Can someone tell me did the "Super Monza" or the "Ultimate Super Monza" 30 bhp hit 105.6mph ? there seems to be some miss quoting here!! Did the "super monza" crack the Ton or the "Ultimate Super Monza". And what is the difference between the two kits, please don't tell me the only difference between the two is a 34 dellorto.

Well as we are talking about what the super monza is etc i dont mind clarifying a few things.

The barrel, porting and crank and exhaust on the super monza that went down the strip is the same as the guys like myself and soulsurfer are running.
When you buy this kit you can opt for the kit as it comes in straight from manufacture in Italy with the gaskets and fittings that are included as standard or you can go for the "works" kit which is using fixings and gaskets that Charlie recommends and Charlie also personally blue prints the kit to make sure port timings etc are to his original design as due to manufacture/casting sometimes this can make one kit differ to the other slightly.....this is true for any kit on the market or any standard manufactured machine.
Everyone i know that runs an SM has gone for the works kit as it only works out about a hundred or so extra pounds.
You then have a choice of exhaust.....the Italian made one that comes in from Tino or the hand made expansion that Charlie produces which is dearer.
Again everyone i know that runs an SM has gone for Charlies exhaust.
You can choose between a phbh 30 mm carb or a Vhsh 30mm (VHSH preferred) or if you like you can go for a 34mm now. As far as i am aware it is just the manifolds that are different that attach to the reed block.
Recommend gearing for the road is a TV200 box with standard 15/46 sprockets giving a final drive ratio of 4.4 or if you feel wealthy you can get a brand new box designed for the SM.
There has now been the development of a programmable ignition with the SM in mind.

Right so in short on the scoot that went up the strip ....barrel is the same, porting the same, exhaust the same, crank the same, it had the 34mm carb on but most of us run a 30mm option. It also had the new programmable ignition. These are the differences.
It was dyno'd at the scooterotica shoot out with said 34mm and programmable ignition on and made approx 30bhp.
So there you have it.

On a sprint day, ALL the competitors will play with their gearing and jetting to achieve higher top speeds so it was running higher gearing and the power jet turned down for optimum power.

Thats it as far as i am aware.
joespeed
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nelson pk wrote:
Dono wrote:
tony wrote:Hi Steve.
Firstly it's not mine. I photographed it at least 6 months ago for an advert.
Yes it's an ultimate kit. The barrel is the same spec as Jimmy Winters 105.6 mph motor. Jimmy had the large carb (34 dellorto)option and the various manifolds available can be seen.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title = The Super Monza exposed. to Quote tony = The barrel is the same spec as Jimmy Winters 105.6 mph motor!!!

Can someone tell me did the "Super Monza" or the "Ultimate Super Monza" 30 bhp hit 105.6mph ? there seems to be some miss quoting here!! Did the "super monza" crack the Ton or the "Ultimate Super Monza". And what is the difference between the two kits, please don't tell me the only difference between the two is a 34 dellorto.

Well as we are talking about what the super monza is etc i dont mind clarifying a few things.

The barrel, porting and crank and exhaust on the super monza that went down the strip is the same as the guys like myself and soulsurfer are running.
When you buy this kit you can opt for the kit as it comes in straight from manufacture in Italy with the gaskets and fittings that are included as standard or you can go for the "works" kit which is using fixings and gaskets that Charlie recommends and Charlie also personally blue prints the kit to make sure port timings etc are to his original design as due to manufacture/casting sometimes this can make one kit differ to the other slightly.....this is true for any kit on the market or any standard manufactured machine.
Everyone i know that runs an SM has gone for the works kit as it only works out about a hundred or so extra pounds.
You then have a choice of exhaust.....the Italian made one that comes in from Tino or the hand made expansion that Charlie produces which is dearer.
Again everyone i know that runs an SM has gone for Charlies exhaust.
You can choose between a phbh 30 mm carb or a Vhsh 30mm (VHSH preferred) or if you like you can go for a 34mm now. As far as i am aware it is just the manifolds that are different that attach to the reed block.
Recommend gearing for the road is a TV200 box with standard 15/46 sprockets giving a final drive ratio of 4.4 or if you feel wealthy you can get a brand new box designed for the SM.
There has now been the development of a programmable ignition with the SM in mind.

Right so in short on the scoot that went up the strip ....barrel is the same, porting the same, exhaust the same, crank the same, it had the 34mm carb on but most of us run a 30mm option. It also had the new programmable ignition. These are the differences.
It was dyno'd at the scooterotica shoot out with said 34mm and programmable ignition on and made approx 30bhp.
So there you have it.

On a sprint day, ALL the competitors will play with their gearing and jetting to achieve higher top speeds so it was running higher gearing and the power jet turned down for optimum power.

Thats it as far as i am aware.

how much is this super monza kit in total?
what your saying is that the programmable ignition boosted power from 30hp to approx 40 making the top speed that it attained of 105 plus beating eric copes road going scooter at the shootout!
so, can the programmable ignition be bought or is it in its primary state? how much?
if the gain of around 10 hp is achieved by the ign. then it is the biggest jump in power over any other mod!
nelson pk
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joespeed wrote: how much is this super monza kit in total?
what your saying is that the programmable ignition boosted power from 30hp to approx 40 making the top speed that it attained of 105 plus beating eric copes road going scooter at the shootout!
so, can the programmable ignition be bought or is it in its primary state? how much?
if the gain of around 10 hp is achieved by the ign. then it is the biggest jump in power over any other mod!

Nope. Didn't say that. Read it again.
And no i dont think a programmable ignition would make an extra 10hp and it didn't........ in fact when i get the programmable ignition on mine if it adds 10hp i'll eat my testicles :lol:
joespeed
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nelson pk wrote: Nope. Didn't say that. Read it again.
And no i dont think a programmable ignition would make an extra 10hp and it didn't........ in fact when i get the programmable ignition on mine if it adds 10hp i'll eat my testicles :lol:

i must be reading the wrong page!
so what your saying is to achieve the 105plus was down to 'playing at the track'.
nelson pk
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It would have been running taller gearing than 4.4 final drive (which is pretty tall gearing on its own) for a sprint meet and i should imagine and the jetting turned leaner than it would be for road use but it was the same barrel, exhaust etc that we all are running.
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tony
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No. It's down to proper set up on a step/brake dyno.
The supermonza showed 30hp on the scooterotica inertia sweep test but it couldn't achieve it's real world egt figures and so power was slightly down. My race bike was the same. I even ran it with powerjet off and still I couldn't hit the correct egt temps and so it lost 500 rpm off peak power. All the Performance Tuning bikes could not achieve their egt values and dan can verfy this.
These bikes are setup for the real world and not for an inertia dyno graph.
Jimmy's bike did not seize up on the mile run. It didn't seize up at the Spanish 6hr either.
That's down to a good motor and proper set up.
This 30hp beating a 41hp motor shows a few things. One is proper setup for real world conditions you can't replicate on an inertia dyno and the other is having a motor with a good spread of power.
And that's basically what has gone on here.
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joespeed
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tony, thanks for that verification,
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tony
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In response to Nelson pk.
Jimmy ran two runs with powerjet leaned slightly to raise egt to gain some more rpm. The bike was leaned to the point of det and this was indicated in a det sensor. The motors are quality and will handle a certain amount of det.
After the top speed was done and repeated at 104mph charley told jimmy to turn it back and go enjoy the rest of the day.
These runs were done first thing and jimmy posted 100mph runs the rest if the day. It's possible slightly higher gearing would achieve the same high speeds on untouched powerjet
Remember this Super Monza is a commercially available kit. It's not a custom job. It's certainly not a flagship motor to show what Charlie can do. This is designed for the market. It's not 253cc either but standard stroke 70 bore. I think this 30cc shortfall has been overlooked.
My race bike has a flagship engine. And that achieved 106.6mph in just half a mile , has only 153cc and over 30hp.
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rocho68
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So are we saying the lost 500rpm is the 10bhp missing on the dyno run ? Maybe the best way to prove this theory is to dyno both bikes again then take them to the strip and see what happens , im just getting more confused as to whats gone into making the extra power ie carb , inlet , ignition and now the temp and then the way it puts the power down , whats more intresting is what would happen if one of these programable ignitions were put on a 40bhp engine !
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tony
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I have explained all that above , well I did my best to.
A mappable ignition does not give you plus ten hp on a thirty hp motor.
You only spread the power band with more advance low down and more retard high up.
I really don't know why these motors are being compared really. One is 225cc commercially avail me and the other is a custom welded up 253 stroked motor.
However seeing as they are in the same 'road ' class under straightliners. I suppose it was inevitable.
In fact Darrell himself compared them via dyno graphs sime time ago. His came out on top in his opinion.
But in the real world things turned out not quite so.
Last edited by tony on Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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