Running rich over time, is this normal?

[jonny snatchsniffer]

so the big jump can be explained by the seal change, having had a wanky seal in the first place it was jetted rich to compensate then the new seals didnt let by so it needed leaning off, the seal you take out might look ok but how do you know how well it seals ?

[drunkmunkey6969]

so the big jump can be explained by the seal change, having had a wanky seal in the first place it was jetted rich to compensate then the new seals didnt let by so it needed leaning off, the seal you take out might look ok but how do you know how well it seals ?

Yes it is possible, but not sure if its likely.

Usually when an oil seal is shot the scooter struggles to tickover, pisses black oil splatters everywhere in the dyno room, and bellows white smoke like a factory chimney.....fairly easy to spot. The air leak would also show up, and if you just tried to richen it up to compensate the scooter would most likely choke up.

Paul, at any point during the first 2500 miles that the scooter ran fine, did you ever get any of the above described symptoms to suggest a dodgy oil seal?

[paulnobodyimportant]

During the 1st 2500 miles, the engine ran great, with the kit and jetted carb straight out of the box with the fine tuning done by Dan at 500 miles. But both this engine and my TS1 seemed to be smoking more than other engines and my mates would comment on the amount of smoke blowing out. But it was not the white billowing smoke of an oil seal failure that I definately had an another scooter after this incedent that we are discussing.

So, in reality, don't think that I had an oil seal failure in the first place, as at that time I had nothing to benchmark what an oil seal failure looked like until a few months later with my Jet 200 and that really blew out white smoke, or it did when I first got it home and noticed no gear oil in and then filled it up, if you know what I mean.

In reality, I feel that the smoke came from running too rich, but it still ran OK, although the B8 plug would look rich when inspected

[paulnobodyimportant]

That's the trouble when you can only snatch time to fettle. Took carb off last night to change setting and needle clip was already on P2 not P1 as reported above. At this setting of P2 it ran great whilst I did a few plug chops and was still cautious due to the shared concers of running a lean needle/atomizer. Anyway, last night, changed needle clip to P2.5, took it to work today and spent a good 60 minutes doing plug chops under load.

The photo below is running at half throttle and the B8 plug is brand new, covered about 10 miles altogether. Took new plug out, so I could inspect and photograph and came back home on an old plug.
Now on P2.5 it feels to be running slightly rich and nowhere as crisp as P2. And, in my opinion, the plug does look on the rich side. Does anyone else think the same?




Cheers

Paul

[jonny snatchsniffer]

all i was saying is that it could have been a seal that was just letting by a bit, nothing major but just enough to change a few settings, however unlikely still remains a posibility

[nelson pk]

all i was saying is that it could have been a seal that was just letting by a bit, nothing major but just enough to change a few settings, however unlikely still remains a posibility

I have had this before. Where for example a seal is letting in a small amount of air on a new build and it doesn't show as a major air leak and you jet to compensate.

For example, i built a muggy 225 a while back now and initially it ran lovely on a AV268/X2, 125 main and 45 slide and 55 pilot with breathe sweet filter
For some reason (i cant remember) i took the mag flange off after a couple of thousand miles and changed the seals for good engineering practice.
Low and behold it wouldn't run the X2 needle anymore for love or money and it ended up like this AV268/X7, 120 main , 50 slide, 52 pilot.
Only explanation i had was the seals must have not been sitting as well as the new seals that were put in.
Strange i must admit.

[nelson pk]

However i will just add that AV264 and X7 at top clip sounds like the highway to destruction on a monza 225.
My monza 225 runs AV268/X13 at second clip position with a JL3 and filter. Camb Lamb recommend starting with an AV268/X2 on a monza and i have seen other dyno run printouts for monzas and they are practically all using much richer atomisers and needles than AV264 and X7.
Be careful!