Super Monza, is this what we've been waiting for?
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after the long wait an all the hype ive gotta say im a bit disapointed with the figures. some people are probably easily impressed. i think il stick to my tuned monza which has more torque and bhp all through the rev range at less cost.
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A bad move? Was good result the sm got at Elvington but I was more interested in the TS230 that beat it.RICSPEED wrote:wise words .. i for one cant wait and it would be a bad move for any tuner not to compete for that reason alonealcoholic maniacs sc wrote:I'll see who gets the highest figures at the scootershoot out in front of my eyes this year and then put my hand in my pocket for my next engine build.
i know of at least one guy who decided at the last one he wanted the S M
What date is it this year?
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Just out of interest,how many miles would you expect from an iron kit then? Not sure how many I've done but I'm in my 10th year on the same bore.nelson pk wrote:Yes, people do say no two identical motors are the same in terms of jetting etc.
The reason this is, is because lets say you have two guys running TS1's with the same ignition, carb and exhaust.
The jetting could be different and this is mainly due to manufacturing tolerences as explanied before.......port timings maybe slightly different. The combustion chambers may be slightly different on the head due to manufacturing etc.
This is the sort of thing that causes different jetting but if you have a barrel, piston and head where port timings are checked, casings are each done the same, head is checked etc and you stick to the suggested timing with the same ignition and crank and the exhaust is manufactured to the same spec by the same person, the jetting is going to be practically the same on every motor.
Comparing iron barrels to aluminium cylinders again is like chalk and cheese in my opinion.
Iron barrels are ok and are not the work of the devil but the fact is you can run tighter piston to bore clearances on an ally barrel and a nicosil coated ally barrel will last longer than an iron barrel in the same state of tune and that is fact. Nicosil wears less.
Ally barrels are more expensive but again it depends what you want...........the best is expensive.......not so good is cheap, as with everything in life.
- Muttley McLadd
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*cough* RB kit *cough*wack 63 wrote:So all you need now is someone to make kits based on your motor
CakeAndArseParty
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eden wrote:to compare them you need to look at the bhp/torque at given rmp'ssoulsurfer wrote:Yes Eden but even taking the scale into consideration, these two graphs look very different to me
at 5500 rpm my engine is doing around 18 bhp the monza is doing less than 15 bhp
at 6000 mine is doing 22.5 bhp the monza is doing slightly less
at 6500 mine is doing 26 bhp the monza is doing about 25 bhp
at 7000 mine is doing about 27 bhp the monza is doing about the same
at 7500 mine is doing 25 bhp the monza is about 26 bhp
at 8000 mine is doing 22 bhp the monza is about the same
at 8500 mine is doing about 21 bhp the monza is doing about 12 bhp
the torque is a similar story. just the monza has less
the graphs dont look the same because of both the scale and horizontal stretch. the only way to compare the graphs is to plot the figures from one graph onto the other, then they look very similar, infact the monza is more peaky than mine!
Impressive but they are also different dynos
Anyway, we've been here before, I like the Super Monza, others don't, so fine, I didn't start this topic for a p1551ing contest, but seem to have got drawn in.... again
Turn On, Tune In, Cop out!
- Muttley McLadd
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Are you suggesting that a home tuned iron barrel is as powerful as an expensive shop-bought kit?eden wrote:no p1551ing, just giving a real world comparison
CakeAndArseParty
I dont have a particular issue with iron barrels.....if you want to use them...no probs.
However all the high end barrels come in aluminium and nikasil lined for these reasons.....cooling and wear properties. Fact.
Should Mr Moss have made the TT3 out of iron? I'm sure his 30% cooler figure would suffer a massive blow if he'd made the kit from iron.
Did AF get it wrong with the TS1 and RB?
Should Mr Edmounds make the Supermonza out of cast iron?
Ummmmmmmmm.......no!
As i said, cast iron can be reliable and its cheaper but is it considered to have better properties than aluminium barrels?........i dont think so.
However all the high end barrels come in aluminium and nikasil lined for these reasons.....cooling and wear properties. Fact.
Should Mr Moss have made the TT3 out of iron? I'm sure his 30% cooler figure would suffer a massive blow if he'd made the kit from iron.
Did AF get it wrong with the TS1 and RB?
Should Mr Edmounds make the Supermonza out of cast iron?
Ummmmmmmmm.......no!
As i said, cast iron can be reliable and its cheaper but is it considered to have better properties than aluminium barrels?........i dont think so.
- Muttley McLadd
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Or opinion..nelson pk wrote:However all the high end barrels come in aluminium and nikasil lined for these reasons.....cooling and wear properties. Fact.
Another option is that people love buying things that they don't need and wont use. And other people make a living selling it to them.
CakeAndArseParty
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Better properties? Not sure what you mean but I've read the word "bulletproof" before to describe kits.So I recon if you put both barrels on a fence and shot at them with a sawn off,I recon the iron barrel would still get you home.nelson pk wrote: As i said, cast iron can be reliable and its cheaper but is it considered to have better properties than aluminium barrels?........i dont think so.