Help please - Problem with original 6v electronic.

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22/2
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Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:43 pm

I have a problem with my original electronic set up.

The stator needed some repairs as it was not working, sent to a reputable dealer known for repairing stators and after testing a new pick up and low tension coil was required.

It has been fitted to the engine but fails to give a spark through the red CDI but if I wire it through a modern black CDI there is a good blue spark.

Is it the case that the new PU & LT are not compatable with the red CDI? if so what can I do to build the stator to make the red CDI spark.

The latest red CDI I have has been tested as working on an original set up.

I have tried it with the red and white wire in opposite positions incase it has been wired as modern elctronic systems but either way no spark.

Any info appreciated.

Rich

Adam_Winstone
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Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:04 pm

Probably the same waste of time dealer that I sent 2 of mine to, back in the days before I decided to rewire my own, who decided to wire 1 of mine as per original but the other as per modern Vespa or SIL electronic stator LT coils :evil: Neither of the stators came back with decent connectors on either... a complete ****ing waste of my time and money!

What I did notice was that the modern LT wiring and original 6V differ and only work with their respective CDIs.... unless you leave the red where it is supposed to be and swap the green and the red wires, which then would work with the the wrong CDI. This may or may not work for you but it is certainly worth a try.

Good luck.

Adam

PS - Sorry if this sounds like an anorak posting (lol)

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22/2
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Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:27 pm

Adam_Winstone wrote:Probably the same waste of time dealer that I sent 2 of mine to, back in the days before I decided to rewire my own, who decided to wire 1 of mine as per original but the other as per modern Vespa or SIL electronic stator LT coils :evil: Neither of the stators came back with decent connectors on either... a complete ****ing waste of my time and money!

What I did notice was that the modern LT wiring and original 6V differ and only work with their respective CDIs.... unless you leave the red where it is supposed to be and swap the green and the red wires, which then would work with the the wrong CDI. This may or may not work for you but it is certainly worth a try.

Good luck.

Adam

PS - Sorry if this sounds like an anorak posting (lol)

leave the red and swap the green and red??

Either way I'll try swapping some more around

Thanks

lamblast
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Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:47 pm

funnily enough mines the same runs on a blue ducati cdi fine ,sparks on the red cdi but wont fire .my stator was shot so was fitted with p200e low tension and pick up .my red box came from weston which he had tested it on one of his bikes .makes you wonder if the low tension is different .

Adam_Winstone
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Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:42 pm

Soz, yes, that should have read... 'leave the red in place and swap the green and white'.

Hopefully makes a little more sense now :roll:

Adam

Adam_Winstone
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Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:54 pm

lamblast wrote:funnily enough mines the same runs on a blue ducati cdi fine ,sparks on the red cdi but wont fire .my stator was shot so was fitted with p200e low tension and pick up .my red box came from weston which he had tested it on one of his bikes .makes you wonder if the low tension is different .
Yep, the LT coils are wired differently, which is why 22/2s stator may now work with the modern CDI and not the original red one. I'd need to dig out one of each to examine and confirm quite how they differ but I seem to remember that the one end of the LT coil on a Vep/SIL LT stator goes to earth (the whole stator base is then earthed and has a white wire coming away from stator base), the other end of the coil becomes the green wire. However, on the 6V stator one end of the LT coil becomes the white wire and goes off directly to the CDI (without earthing to the stator base) whilst the other end of the coil becomes the green wire to the CDI. It appears as though these differences in wiring at the LT work in combination with their respective CDIs but not the other (unless the white and green are swapped around).

Adam

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22/2
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Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 pm

Adam

Swapped green and white with no success, are you saying you have suitable stators to show the wiring configuration? Would be good to see some pics if you could, I'm capable of re soldering a few wires if I know where they are going.

Also some time ago Steve Rowe asked you if you had any spare large posters left, which you did,ring any bells? do you still have them? it was for me.

Richard

J1MS
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Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:15 pm

If its wired as Italian then It should work, maybe it's got another problem...

But here's an explanation of the differences if it helps...

The LT coil on an original ducati stator is placed on to the backplate in effect back to front, this reverses the polarity on the charge coil, the coil on a SIL stator is fitted the opposite, that is in the same way as the lighting coils...

Wiring to the same terminals off the bobbins of each coil would look the same, but it's not as the LT coils windings are in effect reversed...

So white and green have to be reversed...
I did do a small write up about this in jetset around 86' explaining a little of this and how to wire to a P200 CDI...

Although earlier Rally's were wired the same as the Italian electronics...

P.S.
Welcome to Scooterotica Adam. 8-)

Adam_Winstone
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Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:21 pm

22/2 wrote:Adam

Swapped green and white with no success, are you saying you have suitable stators to show the wiring configuration? Would be good to see some pics if you could, I'm capable of re soldering a few wires if I know where they are going.

Also some time ago Steve Rowe asked you if you had any spare large posters left, which you did,ring any bells? do you still have them? it was for me.

Richard
Yes and yes, you'll need to give me some time to take some pics though. Email me at adamw@mjaconsulting.co.uk as a reminder.

Shame that the swap of wire didn't work for you. I found it incredibly frustrating to send away 2 of the same stators and get them back wired differently, typical 'Friday afternoon' work :( Had I known, I'd have never sent such original stators away.

I'll see what I can do.... but I'm not putting my iron barrel back up against your RB again in a hurry ;)

firekdp
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Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:28 pm

Simply check whether they've wired it as later electronics, you should be able to see if they have connected white to earth. The original innocenti electronic's low tension system was isolated from earth, with white as the LT feed and green as the common return for both the LT and pick up circuits.
So a later vespa/Indian stator will not work with an original innocenti CDI because of the difference in the CDI's internal circuitry (basically the earth on the stator shorts it out), but an original electronic stator will work with any CDI, if wired correctly.

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