Name change- British Lambretta Owners Association Club

General scooter chat, any scooter related non technical info.
MaDMAn
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:49 pm

timexit17 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:15 pm
The only fly in that analogy (and it's a rather large one) is the fact that the owner did indeed sign over rights to 'it'
Not really. Giving someone written permission to use something, is not the same as legally signing over the rights. Didn't Mike Karslake infer that all copyright remained with him?

But, even if he had signed everything over completely, the LCGB would still have to show a current use of the brand in the category the trademark was applied for (club use) in order for that to wash legally. But they couldn't do that, because they don't operate as BLOA, they operate as LCGB, which is why the IPO granted the trademark to GF.

timexit17
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:53 pm

The copyright is for the images not the trademark, I have mentioned this previously at least once.
The images have been used by the LCGB continuously on products and in published articles, I have several of these products myself.

servetakid
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:56 pm

MaDMAn wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:49 pm
timexit17 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:15 pm
The only fly in that analogy (and it's a rather large one) is the fact that the owner did indeed sign over rights to 'it'
Not really. Giving someone written permission to use something, is not the same as legally signing over the rights. Didn't Mike Karslake infer that all copyright remained with him?

But, even if he had signed everything over completely, the LCGB would still have to show a current use of the brand in the category the trademark was applied for (club use) in order for that to wash legally. But they couldn't do that, because they don't operate as BLOA, they operate as LCGB, which is why the IPO granted the trademark to GF.
it remains opposed, not granted. :roll:

wintermod65
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:09 pm

i posted within the locked thread on this subject a segment from the 2012 IPO hearing between brand concern and SIL with regards to use of the lambretta name for the purposes of building scooters under the lambretta name for sale in uk .
its in black an white that the LCGB were using the BLOA name and logo on merchandise it was selling in 2003 so to say the name was lying in the gutter for anyone to come along and take for their own is not really the case as they have used it an therefore maintained the clubs link with the BLOA .

if the use of the name was just an innocent attempt to revive times past style club and event why trademark it ? you trademark something because there reputation or revenue at stake .

when confronted with fairly strong evidence if it was purley innocent why would you not accept an error in judgment has been made an then come up with something genuinely different and not " borrow " yet another lambretta club design not of his making

mr frankland has painted himself into a bit of a corner with no obvious escape route . stuck between a hardcore of LCGB haters on one side who will no doubt be baying for his blood on this forum, facetube and other social media at the slightest hint of backing down and giving into to LCGB demands and equally determined LCGB supporters on the other side who probably want to see mr frankland strung from a gibbet for his cheek.

"if you play the game of BLOA names,you win or you die "

eden
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:48 pm

servetakid wrote:
Would you be happy if someone went and registered Indecipherable Lambretta Collective and started knocking out merch because I can't find a FB page any more and assume it is no longer going?
You haven't looked very hard then lol

ILC actually did have someone who ripped off our logo a couple of years ago. But as that logo was a rip off anyway who gives a s**t?
If they did in any case we would know it was knockoff as we don't produce any merchandise to sell on, the only people who get our stuff are members or friends who receive stuff as gifts. Not all clubs are about leaching money out of other scooterist!

This is the problem with people who only know LCGB, they think that if a person or a club isn't involved in the LCGB they are either not worthy or don't exist any more.

ILC are still by far the largest independent lambretta collective and are still going strong riding to events all over. We are looking forward to our own little weekend away in July which has nothing to do with any rally, rally organiser, club or anything else. Just our lot doing what we want to do when we want to do it going to a place we want to go with people we like to be with.

Isn't that what scootering is supposed to be about rather than all this bull s**t?

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Doom Patrol
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:10 pm

Careful Eden. For all you know I might own the ATV logo. :-)

Steveshipley
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:38 pm

lot of barrack room lawyers on here 😂😂😂

Steveshipley
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:50 pm

whilst on the subject of barrack room lawyers....
it seems to me, other than in some people's view that he's morally in the wrong, Mr F has done nothing wrong. the complainant (lcgb) have not contacted him at all to discuss their issue. he on the other hand has responded (albeit inadequately as far as lcgb are concerned). the complainant has gone straight to legal recourse. it will be interesting, and relevant possibly, how this behaviour is judged in any final outcome.

wintermod65
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:50 pm

its fairly clear you have a strong sense of rough justice over your personal interactions with the LCGB Eden , i dont know the circumstances surrounding it but ill take your word thats the way you feel. i dont think LCGB membership is the pinnacle of society but if there are those that think that then i really do despair .
im not sure anyone does dating certs for free so with the scale of lambretta renovation going on being a member of an organisation gives a bit of discount , even mr frankland charges for membership and services .being a bit of an old lefty maybe ill start a free to join club and offer free dating certs( poss charitable donation) given you can get the info anywhere its a bit like money for old rope especially after the rule changes meaning they are only valid for a year.

i agree with your sentiments in the latter part of your post it shouldnt matter to what event you choose to go to whether organised or just out with mates or even by yourself . nobody is conscripted to any scootering organisation its down to choice. theres others who to ude your words leech of scooterists too
take the red spanish LI special with GT 186 kit that was sold on dezs fb site a couple of months back for about £3600
now for sale on another dealers site for £ 4995 with the addition of a mudguard bumper an some stickers !! i know lambretta prices are rising but come on seriously takes the wee wee that to me is leeching more than a tenner or 2o quid for club membership

the BS could stop by en large if mr frankland is forthcoming with some evidence to any of his propositions . as ive posted before the real losers will be the ordinary lambretta enthusiasts from either side of the debate who have invested time , money and energy .

if you dont want to be in any organisation i for one wouldnt hold it against you, as im a gt240 kit owner id be cutting me nose off

wintermod65
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:18 pm

Steveshipley wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:50 pm
whilst on the subject of barrack room lawyers....
it seems to me, other than in some people's view that he's morally in the wrong, Mr F has done nothing wrong. the complainant (lcgb) have not contacted him at all to discuss their issue. he on the other hand has responded (albeit inadequately as far as lcgb are concerned). the complainant has gone straight to legal recourse. it will be interesting, and relevant possibly, how this behaviour is judged in any final outcome.
you must have some skill at barrack room lawyering yourself to come to the conclusion mr frankland has done nothing wrong , i mean without understanding any of the processes how can you reach such a conclusion ?

LCGB have consulted solicitiors as set out in jetset to prepare their case at an IPO hearing probably because at best they too are barrack room lawyers ,and are not experts with the ins an outs of the process
i read sections off the IPO site to get a better understanding of things as this could set precedent .
its much the same as brand concern and sil did they had lawyers to advise at the Trademark hearing they didnt take each other to court initially as thats what the process is

LCGB lodging an objection to mr franklands application is part of the trademarking process they are not doing anything extraordinary it all allowed under the current system

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