LCGB AGM ref BLOA

[mick1]

I don't try to answer questions I don't have the answer to. I just comment on facts i know to be true.

My argument is you have been partaking in a smear campaign. Do you deny you have been doing so?
Its been a few years since you were active in the lcgb yet you post on here and facebook like you are the authority on it.
As someone said a few pages back, you showed how hollow you are when you slagged off your old mate over this, anyone who read that will discount what ever you have to say in future, i know i do.

I don't

It's a pity a lot of the original thread is digressing into personal attacks (from both sides) rather than sticking to the facts and the theme of the original thread.......who owns the BLOA name/trademark or whatever you want to call it.

I had quite an open mind at the start of all this but GF's comments and lack of evidence leads me to siding with the LCGB's stand on this.

I appreciate it is not committee members making the case for the LCGB but interested members who have a passion for the LCGB.

The evidence provided by Nic (and others) seems quite factual and all GF has appeared to do his say he owns the rights .........no letters or names mentioned ?

I'm sure this will drag on but hard facts from GF would be better than just repeating himself by saying he's proved he owns the rights.

[wintermod65]

How my brain visualises this ‘discussion’....

"Can everybody just stop getting shot" !!!

well we seemed to be getting answers somewhere along the way , it baffles me why people have to open up ancient wounds to make a point .

One area i will Agree with mr frankland, is having a recognised rally in the south east / midlands , the clusters of rallies around the southwest or transpennine mersey to humber areas as they as currently stand favour those closeby a bit much i feel . and as for museums they come in all shapes and sizes and nothing wrong with aspirations too. and thats not saying i support the BLOA Name and Logo use issue.

i have to ask a question from those with greater knowlege than my self who are the "Committee" ? they are made to sound like the Masons , Bilderburgs or Illuminati or the Borg !! .
ok give someone a hat and a badge and power can go to their head in some cases , but am sure these are ordinary people trying their best to balance the diverse views and needs of an organisation of over 5000 people.
im sure even they would agree that you dont always get things right , or things could be handled better but thats how we learn and move on.

to close on a lighter note and answer the other GW 1 veteran who posted
" our lot were called to a gathering onboard the Fleet engineering ship RFA Dilligence in Doha , Quatar where the senior British officer Middle East Sir Peter de la Billierre briefed us about forthcoming events and we'd be part of OP Granby , from the back a Stoker yelled out how "come the yanks get Desert storm and we're named after some nob " eg posh person ( marquis of granby) everyone else thought he was calling it operation knob (eg knobhead ) and starting p1551ing themselves

so whats in a name " nothing , ...... everything "!

[timexit17]

I'll leave this here since it seems to being forgotten, it is, after all, at least one of the important questions that have, as yet, gone unanswered.
It may well be, as Eden has said,because of impending decisions by the IPO or even legal action it may even be because those required to answer haven't got anything evidence wise, which is going to make statements ending 'FACT' quoted earlier look a bit hollow.
This is ALL about the use of the name, if that name hadn't been used then I am 100% sure we'd all be welcoming a new national club with a different offering, as it stands currently there's going to have to be a hell of a lot of doorstep polishing for that now it's been well & truly shat on.

Does Gavin have proof Mike Karslake gave and assigned the rights of his designs to an individual rather than the LCGB as a whole? YES/NO


PS The LCGB committee are the names published in Jetset every issue, they are on page 13 of the latest edition with contact details so hardly a secret squirrel club, I'm quite sure given a sample of 13 people there are occasionally going to be people you disagree with, luckily for me 4 are personal long standing friends of mine.

[wintermod65]

i believe somehere in the JETSET article posted it does say Mike Karslake consulted his solicitor re the designs , i would have thought he would have made his intentions about giving them to the LCGB known to his solicitor. who i guess as being alive could confirm whether it was to an individual or the Club as an
organisation . although to me it looks like it was to the organisation " the club has exclusive rights to them" gives it away a bit .

[Nic]

I don't try to answer questions I don't have the answer to. I just comment on facts i know to be true.

My argument is you have been partaking in a smear campaign. Do you deny you have been doing so?
Its been a few years since you were active in the lcgb yet you post on here and facebook like you are the authority on it.
As someone said a few pages back, you showed how hollow you are when you slagged off your old mate over this, anyone who read that will discount what ever you have to say in future, i know i do.

I'm again disappointed by your reply. I won't respond to the personal stuff if that's OK.

What matters is that over the past two months or so, here and on FB you have asked me and others in the Club endless questions about the LCGB and its internal structures. Despite the fact there was clearly a sub-text that is not relevant to the issue under discussion we have tried to answer your questions to the best of our ability.

None of your comments had a bearing on the central point that the LCGB has been making, which is that Gavin Frankland, with your support and that of other individuals, has taken something that does not belong to him - namely Mike Karslake's BLOA designs and imagery, which were copyrighted by him and assigned to the LCGB before he died.

Ultimately Eden, it seems to me that there are two underlying elements of this argument that really matter much, much more.

The first is the legal one. I quite understand if you don't want to comment on this aspect: you're not a lawyer and neither am I. Possibly this is one that is best left alone for now.

The second aspect, however, is a moral one: is it right that someone should take a name that is widely recognised as part of the LCGB's history, take the designs and imagery of the man who helped create the LCGB, and use them for his own ends?

Is it right to do so when, as we have published evidence in Jet Set, Mike Karslake specifically assigned the use of this copyrighted imagery to the LCGB? Despite me specifically asking Gavin Frankland to tell us if he considers our original material to be a forgery, there has been no response.

Here, it IS possible for people to have an opinion. Indeed, in my view, and that of many others, on this specific issue the moral argument is even more important than the legal one. We all know of cases where the law is an ass, but common decency and morality among scooterists should be above that, surely?

It would have been good if you could have put aside your bitterness towards some members of the LCGB committee, which is clearly evident in many of your posts, and express an opinion on the moral issues involved.

It's sad that you are unable to do so and to support our moral argument. Luckily, the vast majority of LCGB members - and yes, it is the vast majority - as well as many non-members, don't appear to have the same difficulty.

[Doom Patrol]

Can you just clarify what you mean by the vast majority? I don't remember being consulted.

[Timbo]

“None of your comments had a bearing on the central point that the LCGB has been making, which is that Gavin Frankland, with your support and that of other individuals, has taken something that does not belong to him”

This implies that i/we have helped him please clarify?

[GTFOMWSC]

Can you just clarify what you mean by the vast majority? I don't remember being consulted.

me neither so looks like the vast majority haven't been consulted as none of my mates have either. When i asked them for their views on this most either didn't care or knew nothing about it.Also i must admit this so called letter thats been sent by LCGB to clubs for backing of their stance did they ever actually think of some of the problems that it could cause between members of clubs?.Not sure if one has been sent to ours or not nobody has said anything i'd assume if one has we'd discuss it.

[timexit17]

The letters were sent to all affiliated clubs, certainly all clubs round my way had one anyway.
I think most clubs consulted their members the same way mine did -gauging opinion directly on private FB pages or at meetings face to face.
Some, which are clearly a bit more formal, had a secret ballot.
I'm not sure how a club would deal with a 50/50 decision but suspect that it was dealt with by most as a majority of those who expressed a preference, it, after all works for all other UK elections that way.

If, as reported all affiliated clubs had this opportunity and the vast majority have reported back to the LCGB backing them then this would surely be the vast majority?

If you haven't been consulted then I'd be taking it up with your clubs LCGB contact and they directly with Craig Standeven if they haven't had anything.

Frankly, as the LCGB committee already had the overwhelming backing of the AGM attendees they didn't need to go out to the membership at all, but I'm guessing it was to defuse any later issues with the level of legal fees if the case goes all the way to court.

[Nic]

“None of your comments had a bearing on the central point that the LCGB has been making, which is that Gavin Frankland, with your support and that of other individuals, has taken something that does not belong to him”

This implies that i/we have helped him please clarify?

If you wish to make clear that you do not support Gavin Frankland taking the BLOA name and its imagery, which was copyrighted by Mike Karslake and assigned by him to the LCGB - then you are more than welcome to do so.