LCGB AGM ref BLOA

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Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:08 am

Look I like this site but the arguing is bringing it down one word STOP. There is no need to air all this on here unless it’s to gain public support . I suggest both parties sort it out elsewhere. BTW I am a lcgb member, I support the club just not this public arguing.

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Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:23 am

Nic wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:57 pm
Kev Walsh was pushed out? b@11@x. I was there on the committee when he resigned. I won't go into the detail of what happened out of a lingering respect for Kev's past achievements but is is 100% the opposite of what you say. Those of us who experienced the last 12 months of Kev as GS know what really happened and you haven't got a clue.
Yes, Kev did resign. But why would a man of his standing and position do that, unless he was put in a position where he had no other choice. And lets face it, a few on that committee had been hounding him for some time, the daggers were drawn and he knew it. It wasnt teh first time you lot had turned on him and tried to vote him out was it? Speak to the man today, see if he agrees with you, or with me. His version doesn't tally up to yours.
Nic wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:57 pm
"I saw on Facebook how one of [NIc's] friends recently bought a BLOA t-shirt, and was immediately turned on, rinsed out and hung out to dry." Actually, I neither knew nor did I give a toss whether he bought anything, a T-shirt or a BLOA butt plug. That's up to him.

What mattered to me was that this guy, whom I rode with for many years, whom I treated as a best mate, who stayed round my house, whom I drank and socialised with outside of scootering, who was a friend of lots of Committee members and other longstanding LCGB members who treated him with nothing other than respect and kindness, suddenly started telling people on the FB BLOA page that during our time together his friends, me included, had been part of an LCGB "dictatorship".

He gave no evidence for this assertion. It was not just unsubstantiated but completely untrue, as he subsequently admitted. He made it to curry favour with people like you on the FB page, sadly. In my case, I saw that as a betrayal of friendship. The fact that you even have to lie about the motivation of my FB post says something about you, however.
Really? Looks to me like you turned on your own mate, just because he wasn't as 'staunch' as you anymore. And despite his best attempts to cool the situation and repeatedly apologise, your public rant continued. You publicly vilified and ostracised him in a ridiculous fashion. Don't recall Have a different recollection? Well let me remind you, here's the transcript from your own FB page:

Nic Cicutti
22 hrs ·
A few minutes ago, a pal whom I've known and ridden scooters with for many years, suggested that I go and pay a visit on the Old Skool Lambrettas page here on FB and look at a developing debate on the subject of BLOA and the LCGB.
The issue, which is becoming increasingly strongly debated in scootering circles, is that of who has moral ownership of the name British Lambretta Owners Association. Is it just a free-standing name which anyone can just register and lay a claim to, or should it be considered a part of the Lambretta Club of Great Britain's history and tradition?
My own view is that it forms part of the LCGB history. All the original BLOA designs were bequeathed to the Club by their creator, Mike Karslake, and for someone to just take them and use them for their own financial gain makes me feel quite angry. At this stage, however, that's not what I want to talk about: more will come out in the days and weeks that follow.
No, what I want to talk about is something related to this subject. Because, on the same FB page I also saw the name of someone I recognised, whom I've known for nearly 15 years, telling all and sundry that he had refused to rejoin the LCGB, which he described as a "dictatorship".
Now, I've known the guy in question for a long time. We've ridden together on many a Euro and UK rally, in Germany, France, Sweden, Belgium and more. We attended LCGB AGMs together for years, sometimes stopping off at friends houses in Derby where we proceeded to get shitfaced with the lads from up that way, including Steve Grunty, Steeley and others.
We served as moderators together on a previous incarnation of the LCGB Forums for a couple of years. I went round his house and he came round mine on quite a few occasions. When we were both working up in the Big Smoke we'd go boozing together. I've gone to gigs with him several times.
When we last met for a drink in late 2016, he was telling me of a crazy idea to set up a Qatari (I think) branch of the Lambretta Club and ride all the way to Italy for Euro 2017. I laughed - totally mad, of course - but gave him some advice on how to make it happen. In the event it didn't. I say all this to show that we weren't just casual acquaintances but, at one point, fairly close friends.
Never in all that time did I ever hear him describe the LCGB as a dictatorship. My friend was also close to many of the then serving committee members in the LCGB, as well as former committee members and other high-profile Club members and volunteers in the London Lambretta Club, Derby & District, Darlington, Essex LC, Modrapheniacs, Wisemen, Crawley SC, Talismen etc, to name but a few high profile clubs associated with the LCGB. None of them, on or off the committee, on or off the record, ever heard him state that the LCGB was a dictatorship.
In fact, I was on that committee myself for six years, finally steppping down in 2013. At no stage did my "friend" ever voice any concern about a dictatorship in the LCGB. If he had I'd either have tried to put his mind at rest or, if I felt he had a point, raised his concerns within the committee myself. That said I'd have found it strange if he had, seeing as how during my time alone the committee's membership was broadened to include new representation from the New Forest, Cumbria, East Yorkshire, Essex, Stoke-on-Trent and Derby. Some dictatorship!
In that time we amended the constitution of the LCGB to do away with the post of General Secretary - a single person in charge - and shared the role more widely among the entire committee. A separate post of Jet Set Editor was created, answerable directly to the AGM for the first time. Jet Set now carries details of committee meetings. The magazine's report of AGMs is more thorough and detailed than it ever was in the early Noughties, before I joined. Involvement in the committee itself became much more consistent, ensuring wider and better discussions.
Yet suddenly, I see my "friend" making a comment about a dictatorship in a debate about BLOA. WTF? How do I square that circle? What has caused my "friend" to suddenly declare that he was involved in dictatorship? Did I miss something? Am I a victim of Stockholm Syndrome, where you are a captive of an organisation for so long that you end up becoming imbued with its value systems, no matter how degrading or unpleasant they might be? Somehow, I don't think so. I have to believe that it was my friend who is mistaken (although he'd probably reply that I would say that!).
If so, why would he say something that is so grotesquely untrue? I'm a charitable person, so I must assume that the origin of his mistake lies in the fact that he f@@ked off to the Middle East for work about five years ago and rarely comes back since - and when he does he doesn't mix much in scootering circles and certainly doesn't go on rallies any more. Therefore he knows nothing about the LCGB or how it works any longer.
If I didn't think that, I'd have to assume that, deep down my "friend" has decided that past friendships born of thousands of miles riding together, of drinks and laughs shared, of mad, happy, joyous experiences, of on-the-road frustrations, of breakdowns, of getting lost and going round roundabouts six times, of setting fire to ceilings in absynthe bars, all of that is now meanigless to him.
So much so that he is prepared to cut off a massive slice of his past. Once upon a time my "friend" would have been the first to say that BLOA, the name that predated the LCGB was part of the Club's tradition and heritage. Now, he makes unsubstantiated claims about dictatorships. He states that he has a valid reason for his comment but won't share it with anyone.
I genuinely don't know what to think any more. Perhaps, if he appears on one of your pages, you might want to ask him why he is betraying everything he once held dear and spitting in the face of everyone whom he once pretended to be a friend of. If so, his name is Darrell Milnes. I hope he does try to explain himself: I'm sure he has a genuine reasosn for being a turncoat. If so, let's hear it.
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Nik Skeat I'm surprised to hear all that Nic, what I know of Darrell has always led me to believe he was level headed and well adjusted - by scooterist standards, anyway.

As for BLOA, you're entirely right. It may have been a separate entity, but it is certainly an integral part of the LCGB history imho.

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· Reply · 22h

Martin Barton I've been out of all this for a while partly because of the power struggles and politics. I can't really comment on Darrell's comments. I get that not everyone likes the LCGB, it's a free world after all. The LCGB evolved out of BLOA and my personal feeling is that if you want an alternative, then create something new. To just plagarise history is just lazy. To say the new produce is the first for years appears to overlook all the LCGB club shop that incorporated the logo over the last 40 years including legshield badges. We also got the logo removed from some Lambretta clothing as it overstepped their agreement with LCGB. To me it's a moral issue, you wouldnt start up a football team and call it Woolwich Arsenal or Thames Ironworks just because those teams dont use it....it's not cool

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· Reply · 22h · Edited

Tim Hayhoe I agree 100%. It seems to me that there are one or two people who feel they have a legitimate grievance with the committee and the current rules regarding it, these people have been very vocal in this view and others are, regrettably adopting this stance, & not because they have any genuine grievance either. I have been accused of being anywhere from naive to a brown noser and LCGB stooge for defending certain members of the committee from what are/were outrageous slurs. I stand with the LCGB, the worlds largest lambretta club and can only wonder at those I (still) regard as mates as to their reasoning for joining an organisation that can only divide, not unite scooterists. I also concur in regards the BLOA copyright as being that of the LCGB alone.

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· Reply · 22h · Edited

Tim Hayhoe Can someone remind me of such an organisation in scootering? It’s on the tip of my tongue..... wait

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· Reply · 21h

Nic Cicutti No! Surely you don't mean... Not the organisation with no functioning committee whose self-appointed "leader" steals part of another Club's heritage for his own personal gain? How dare you even suggest such a thing?

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· Reply · 21h

Tim Hayhoe I don't know who you're referring to Nico. 🤣 🤔

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· Reply · 21h

Tim Hayhoe I had a look around the IPO website, I've had dealing with them before for various websites professionally and there are literally hundreds of names that could simply be picked up & run with since there is no current trademark/copyright on them. I say 'could' but look what happened when a 2 bit clothing shop tried to copyright the northern soul fist logo. Just because it's 'dormant' as a trademark doesn't mean it's not being used, and for someone who is old enough and knowledgable enough to know what they are hijacking makes it about 100 times worse in my book.
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Stacey Morton Don’t people just move on nic.
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· Reply · 21h

Nic Cicutti You talking about me or my former friend, Stacey?
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· Reply · 21h

Stacey Morton Nic Cicutti Darrell mate.
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· Reply · 21h

Nic Cicutti I don't mind anyone moving on. Perfectly fine with that. I don't like them doing so by lying about their mates. If he's right I was part of that so called dictatorship. And so were his best friends.

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· Reply · 21h

Stacey Morton Nic Cicutti I used I like going on the lcgb forums but to me personally it got to political.
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· Reply · 20h

Nic Cicutti Fair dos. Stacey Morton. Totally respect your views. But I'm not calling you a dictator or viceversa
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Bryan Connor I understand your frustration and pain at being let down by a guy I honestly thought was your friend. If it helps, I always saw Darrell as a guy who attempted to please all of the people, all of the time, but in this instance he has unwittingly upset quite a few close to him.

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· Reply · 21h

Nic Cicutti It's not so much the letting down Bryan, it's the way he's trashing such a part of his own history. To what end? All the people he was a friend of, whom he knows, who were and are active in the LCGB. They are now classed as dictators - or as dupes of the dictators. I'm not sure which of the two is more insulting

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Alan Gardiner In fact both probably belong to Lambretta Concessionaires who formed both for Lambretta riders,graciously though Peter Agg gave his blessing to Widnes Saints to reopen LCGB in the mid 70s,Mike Karslake also involved,in my opinion it belongs to the LCGB as such.

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· Reply · 20h

Alan Gardiner Lambretta concessionaires was still registered as a company ,maybe still is.

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· Reply · 20h

Tim Hayhoe No it isn’t. It isn’t trademarked anyway.
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· Reply · 20h

Rob Skipsey SOMEBODY BETTER REGISTER IT THEN ??? no richard not you !!!!!!

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· Reply · 9h

Tim Hayhoe
🤣
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Tim Hayhoe And here it is folks a sneak video of BLOAs annual conference.... https://youtu.be/TA8Uav7EPlQManage



Alexei Sayle as Benito Mussolini
YOUTUBE.COM

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· Reply · 20h

Nic Cicutti I prefer the picture I've been sent to be honest... 😋

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Nic Cicutti Love the reference to the special branch 😂

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Tim Hayhoe It's the Liverpudlian angle I like :-)
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Mark Tidd I read that , I thought it seemed odd but as I have been away since Swiss Euro don't understand it . As far as I understand it's all part of the lcgb

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· Reply · 19h

Andrew Vass Once upon a time many moons ago we as a country produced a small team to represent the united kingdon on a world stage .against the best ofthe rest of the world had to offer. Against all odds our representitives won. And returned victorious with the gr...See more

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· Reply · 19h

Phil Smith Dictatorship was definitely an unfortunate choice of word(s).

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Andrew Vass ...football look no further than Wimbledon football club theirs is a story of a spiv coming along nicking their status their history just by a few swift underhanded moves... Totally morally wrong unacceptable on every level....

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Nic Cicutti Totally with you on Wimbledon. I now follow their results every week. If they ever get back into the Championship, normal service will be resumed, especially when they play the mighty ITFC (don't laugh). But until then I'll happily make them my third team...

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Nick Jordan I always thought of Darrell as a close friend and was sad to see that he had moved to a different circle of friends and completely lost touch with his old ones. Knowing Darrell as I once did (despite not being able to read the post in question) I can’t believe this was meant as a serious insult to you Nic or any of his LCGB friends.

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· Reply · 19h

Nic Cicutti Unfortunately, NickJordan, this wasn't a slip: there were several comments made by Darrell before they were deleted and quite a few people who read them. They have messaged and emailed me. There are several more in the so-called BLOA Facebook page. I'm not sure that he has many LCGB friends now. Most who've commented to me in the last few days just think he's a knob. TBH, all of us know stories about him that we've kept quiet about or made excuses for him over the years. Where I draw the line is when he trashes my club and, without even thinking about it too hard, his former mates' history in the LCGB in order to better stick his cock up Gavin Frankland's arse. That's unforgivable. ARE YOU LISTENING Darrell Milnes?

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Darrell Milnes Hi Nic , hope all is well with you , family and all the guys back in the UK. My comment wasn't aimed at any individual but as my opinion of the way things were going in the LCGB As a whole when I left the UK. I didn't like the way things were being handled as a whole , members weren't being listened to and the committee in my opinion were making decisions based on their own requirements . This is my personal opinion . Things may have changed since I left but as I said I didn't feel as though the members were being listened to . I have no grievance with any individual , and I treasure my time with everyone , they were the best times of my life . Maybe I shouldn't have posted what I did , but it's too late now and I have to take criticism , which is fine . Yes I have caused problems for people I care about , and yes I do regret that hugely . I tried to sort everyone out during my crisis , and I like to think that I sorted my problems out with them directly . I believe I did my best to do so . If I have caused any distress by my posts and other actions , then I can only apologise to everyone . I too miss our rides and time together , but leaving the UK when I did was something I had to do for the good of all . One thing I would like to say is that during my crisis time maybe it would have been better to talk to me about what happened and not discuss things behind my back , particularly with certain people I have been friends with for over 30 years , but I won't go on about that since it's now over 7 years ago, and like I said I did my best to settle those issues . For the record; if I have caused any distress following my post, then I apologise , and I'm happy to discuss face to face on my next (rare) visit to the uk in June this year. You have no idea how much I miss you guys , I did try and arrange a drink with you on my last visit Nic but my messages weren't replied to . To reiterate my comment was not aimed at any individual but to the way I saw things portrayed by the club . Maybe I'm wrong , but it's the way I saw things going . You'll always be my friend , all of you will be , I see no need for quotation marks. Take care , stay free

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· Reply · 18h

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Nic Cicutti Darrell Milnes you have always been up the arse of the last person who you spoke to. And now you're trying to p155 in my pocket. Again. The truth is you came out with a bunch of comments over weeks that had no bearing on reality. Never at any time did the club or the committee do anything to justify the comments you made. The claim that the committee did things for its own requirements is an easy statement to make - it's also completely untrue. The bottom line, and we've seen it again and again in recent weeks, is you said it to curry favour with Gavin Frankland and his mates. No matter that there was no justification for them. It never occurred to you, did it, that people whom you rode with and drank with are on the very LCGB committee and the activists you accused of being a dictatorship. You're so f@@king oblivious to what you do that it probably didn't occur to you the very people who you ride with are now on the LCGB committee and know you are talking crap. So stop this s**t about "maybe I'm wrong..". You were. Full stop. As for what happened seven years ago, actually, I never even raised it with you - shocking as many of the things you did were. Back then I kind of abstained from challenging you. But now I see they are part of a pattern of behaviour by you. Which includes innuendo and unsubstantiated comments over the last few weeks. All you are good for now is to.provide cover to Gavin Frankland to steal some of the LCGB's history. He and his little band are now your best buddies. Until you stitch them up like everyone else you've come into contact with over the years. Or they kipper you. Frankly, I couldn't give a f@@k. You deserve each other.

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· Reply · 17h

Darrell Milnes Nic Cicutti I started to pen a reply but quite frankly it's pointless. You've made your mind up. I tried to apologise and admit my mistakes up to you what you think .
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· Reply · 11h · Edited

Nic Cicutti I do appreciate how confusing it must be for you, Darrell Milnes. There you are, trashing your mates and their history on scootering, making untrue allegations about a Club you were once a proud member of, engaging in a bit of nudge nudge nudge wink wink, saying you know something about a dictatorial regime, when in fact it's a load of old bollox. In doing so you end up taking sides - the wrong side - in a debate in which the founding history of your former club is being taken away by your new "friends'. Then, and I can only imagine how mystifying it must be to you, someone finally finally calls you out and says stop. They point out your lies. At which point, you issue a non-apology, saying "if" you caused distress you are sorry, but it was "because of the way you saw things portrayed by the club..." So it's not your fault at all but every one else's. So it must really be galling to you when the people you've described as being part of a dictatorship feel your "apology" doesn't quite cut it. What an ungrateful bunch of *unts we must seem to you. Ah well, never mind. You still have Gavin to play with...

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· Reply · 10h

Darrell Milnes You really do know how to twist my words don't you Nic. There is no nudge nudge wink wink, if there was then I wouldn't have posted publicly would I ? My comments were made as I saw things when I left the UK, 5 years ago when the old committee was around, You'd left by that time. I don't know who who is on there now, and maybe things have changed since 2013 ? I saw a lot of things that I didn't like, and decided not to renew my membership, it's that simple. I agree my choice of wording was incorrect, and I apologise for the that "undemocratic" would have been more apt, I was wrong. and FYI, I'm not a huge fan of Gavin, I'm not a BLOA member, and don't intend to join. If you would care to look at the BLOA FB page and do a search for my name, you will find 2 comments, one agreeing with Eden, the other asking for more information, and that's it.Where you get these weeks of posting from, I've no idea. Look for yourself.
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· Reply · 9h

Steve Grunty Darrell Milnes I'm on that dictatorial committee.

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· Reply · 9h

Darrell Milnes Steve as I posted above, this was my opinion in 2013 when I left the UK, my post on the BLOA post also stated that, and I reiterated it. Nic saying that I've trashed my mates is totally wrong. My choice of word was wrong, and again I said that above. I also stated that I had my reasons for leaving but didn't want to discuss that. I didn't attack anyone personally, I didn't mention names.
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· Reply · 9h

Martin Barton Sorry to butt in, but as someone who had a bust up with an old friend over internet comments and being geographically distant.....as impractical as it is at the moment you guys need to sit and have a beer together!
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· Reply · 8h

Darrell Milnes Martin Barton I would welcome it
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· Reply · 8h

Nic Cicutti I was on that dictatorial committee in 2013, in 2012, in 2011, in 2010 and for several years before that. Steve Grunty was also on it for some of those years. You never once raised any issues with me or anyone else. You rode with us, you drank with us, you stayed in our homes. Did you seriously think that a) we wouldn't notice you slagging off the committee we were part of and b) that we might not be angry at your behaviour?

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· Reply · 8h

Darrell Milnes Did I not discuss the formation of an alternative club with you several times ? Did I not witness harassment of members at events and rallies, did I not witness a physical attack at an AGM ? Steve was NEVER on the committee when I was a member. You yourself expressed discontent with the way the club was being run at that time, do you not recall this ? We had several discussions about it many times. I was WRONG to use the word dictatorship, and never once did I mention names or launch a personal attack. End of.
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· Reply · 8h

Nic Cicutti No, you did not EVER discuss setting up an alternative club with me. If you had I'd have remembered - and I'd have advised you that it was not something I'm interested in. If you witnessed harassment of members at events and rallies you NEVER mentioned it to me. Let me be crystal clear: any harassment of members is completely unacceptable, including those who spent the evening jostling me and others who supported the constitutional changes to the LCGB which were approved by an overwhelming majority in January 2011. Re. The physical attack: you were NOT present in the toilet when it happened. Only a handful of people were and that did not include you. The LCGB committee mounted an immediate inquiry into what happened and the outcome was the resignation of a committee member. The announcement of the resignation was carried in Jet Set. The individual concerned apologised to the committee and, as I understand, to the other person involved in the fracas. I cIearly recall all this because I was the editor at the time the statement went into Jet Set.

Yes, from time to time I have had disagreements with aspects of the club's strategies. There has never been a rule preventing me from discussing them with members - that really would be a dictatorship, wouldn't it? But those occasional disagreements have always been resolved through frank and honest discussion. Not by slagging off or making up stories.

Your comments - and the deliberate inaccuracies in them - just go to prove that your so-called apology was utterly meaningless.
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· Reply · 7h

Darrell Milnes Interpret my responses in whatever way you choose Nic. I won't labor the points I mentioned above, there's no future in that. You obviously have no interest in listening to me, even though I admit I was wrong using a certain word, which you keep bringing up time and time again. I wish you all the best, the club all the best and hope everyone rides safe. Cheerio.
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· Reply · 6h

Nic Cicutti You've nothing left to labour. Your points have been systematically dealt with. I've read everything you said and replied with something called "facts", which is not congenial to you. You are leaving because your untruths have been exposed and for no other reason. Good bye.
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Dave Taylor how shallow friendships must actually be that they can be lost so easily scootering is a very shallow business...no depth in it whatsoever ,

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· Reply · 4h

Tim Hayhoe Especially when, As has been quite clearly shown by Nic on this thread a lot of the rumours are nothing but malicious bitching with no foundation in fact at all.
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· Reply · 4h

Tim Hayhoe I didn’t mean you Darrell.
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· Reply · 4h · Edited

Darrell Milnes Tim Hayhoe apologies Tim.
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· Reply · 4h

Tim Hayhoe No probs. There are one or two Machiavellian characters who clearly have something to gain by all this and they are either fabricating or heavily embellishing rumours and half truths.

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· Reply · 4h

Nic Cicutti The reference to a LAE can only be about me. I have no recollection of you suggesting that such a club be formed. I do recall there were individuals who, in the aftermath of the vote at the January 2011 AGM, were canvassing the formation of an alternative club. This was on a journey back to the local clubs home destination. Two people who were on the same trip home called me and told me. I believe other committee members heard similar stories.

But for you to reference that as you telling me that you wanted to form a different Club is categorically untrue.

As for your reference to what happened OUTSIDE the toilets at the AGM, now I know you're desperate. The only witnessed assault apart from a couple of handbags at dawn was an assault ON a committee member. The person who carried out the assault was restrained by another member, who actually had legal powers of arrest. We know this because we investigated the incident ourselves. Had the incident been reported to the police, given the nature of his work, the person who assaulted the committee member would have lost his job. During its investigation, the committee member specifically asked that no action be taken in respect of the assault on him. He also immediately resigned from the committee and apologized for his part in the overall incident.

For you to cite other alleged acts of intimidation but coyly decline to give any details is an act of moral cowardice.

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· Reply · 3h

Darrell Milnes I was responding to Tim not you. Since he said He wasn't referring to me I deleted my comment. As for the LCE I remember discussing with you along with another member, but as you've already said previously, your memory is vague, so I won't pursue that one. I'm not desperate Nic, I'm just saying what I saw OK ? Accusing me of moral cowardice by not mentioning names is a low blow, I choose not to, end of. I've apologized several times for the use of a certain word, and yes I f@@ked up, bad decision, but not once have i mentioned any individual, yourself included, I didn't even mention the committee. I'm not a member of BLOA, I fancied a T Shirt for my collection, that's about it. I have no intention of joining either. Take this how you want, p1551ing in your pocket or whatever. I've apologized as many times as I can. I'm more than happy to meet up for a beer anytime when I come back for a visit. The invitation is open to you or anyone who wants to discuss this f@@k up with me, because that's what it was, a simple f@@k up. Ride safe.
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Dave Taylor you maybe used the wrong word ,but if a commitee cant be voted off ie its a life commitee ,,where no one member can be voted off only the whole commitee which means the club ceases overnight ,,,whats a better word ? is that really the constitution of any club ? immaterial to 95% of the membership ,,cos they dont use the club ,presume anybody who would dare question this constitution is an outlaw ,?
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· Reply · 4h

Nic Cicutti Hang on. Dave, where does it say there is such a thing as a life committee? The committee ceases to be at the start of the AGM. A new committee is then proposed. People vote for that committee. Or they don't. If they want a different committee they can propose one. It can consist of all the people who are part of the committee, plus or minus those they want on or or off.

And why are you using emotional language about "outlaws"? You want to question the way we elect the committee, be my guest. Put a proposal to amend the LCGB's constitution into Jet Set so that everyone can read it. Argue your points at the AGM. There will be opposition to the proposal, but if you put a better argument, you might. If you win, fine. But you should also be prepared to accept the democratic will of the majority. Much better than slagging the club off

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· Reply · 3h

Dave Taylor it doesnt nic iam simply saying if they cant be voted off then they could be on commitee until they wish to leave ,,is that the case .? of course there may be good reason for this ,,the commitee do put some hours in and its all without pay ,they may take view if i do all that for club one year i could be voted off the next ,which i could understand or could be to keep a certain amount of stability ,,can understand that as well ,if people come and go a lot of what they,ve done is lost ,but surely concept of it will be not without the odd critic will it ,,and effectively any commitee of anything even a womens guild is a life commitee if it cant be removed without the organisation closing over night as it ceases to function ,without its commitee ,,if the LCGB commitee is voted in on a yearly basis on there efforts or work in previous year thats how it should be ,and posts i,ve read on subject are not correct ,,i dont take anything as concrete in this hobby ,and am always happy to read another view ,not knocking anything ,just saying if that was the case it could find the odd critic ,there are very few organisations who wont have a critic of some description ,
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· Reply · 2h

Dave Taylor i,ve just read all of edens posts on the subject i dont take him as a man who,s a dillutionist,he seems to be a man who has a fair grasp of fact ,of course he,s fell out with the club that dont mean his posts are rubbish ,his personal vids have prob inspired people to take scootering up ,as there pretty good ,and show a brilliant side of the hobby that may appeal to people who would never bother with a lambretta ,,i read his posts not because there agrumentative ,but because there different to the norm i dont know if there correct in every aspect just like opinionated people ,,no hobbys any the better for no opinions ,
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· Reply · 1h · Edited

Nic Cicutti Hi again Dave. Like I say, if you want to vote someone off you can, you just propose a different slate of people minus that person.But generally, if someone's not pulling his or her weight it will be obvious to everyone, especially in the rest of the committee. In that case you have a chat with that person. Sometimes there's a good personal reason for it, in which case yoou cut people a bit of slack. Other times they might be having a lazy couple of months. Again, you play it by ear. My own expetience was that everyone was good at something - and some people worked exceptonally hard
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· Reply · 1h

Nic Cicutti Dave Taylor Just seen this post re. Eden. Look, I don't have any beef with Eden. I understand that he does have with some members of the LCGB committee but I'm not on the committee just an ex committee member seeking to clarify one or two points. What I've tried to do with Eden's posts is look at the issues he raises. I think he'd accept thats reasonable. I happen to think he's wrong on some points: the way the committee is elected is NOT, in my opionion, as big an issue among the wider membership than it is with Eden and possibly yourself, for instance. What members want is an efficient and well-run club amd I think the current committee scorres highly on both counts. All except Toddy, of course, but then again he is from around Hull way...

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· Reply · 1h

Dave Taylor you mentioned you would like a natter with eden about gt kit etc totally harmeless its just information gathering whats difference with gathering info about a clubs constitution ? no subject in life is beyond question nothing ,if people understand the constitution and are happy with it great ,i doubt if many actually knew it ,its of no consequence ,this is an agreement hobby ,with just the odd ,oddball who just by nature dont agree ,miniscule percentage ,most people enjoy the shelter of the crowd its how were made ,
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· Reply · 1h

Nic Cicutti Agree. There's no harm whatsoever in asking for information about the club's constitution. I'd always encourage it, in fact. If you ask a committee member I'm sure they will send you a copy of the constitution. Ask Toddy, he's always got one to spare. The constitution also has details of how you can change it. I've tried to offer some pointers but the full details are in there. The key point that needs to be got across is that a) a constitution can always be changed if it's felt not to be working. This means you can change it if you wish.

And b) at least we HAVE a constitution. And an elected committee, and a system of accountability to an AGM, where annual reports have to be presented. I can think of at least one would be club with the word Lambretta in it that has been operating for months without any of the democratic checks and balances we have in the LCGB.

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· Reply · 1h

Dave Taylor communisim works on paper it dont work in real life and never has it just meant 95% are the same and the top 5% was never going to be ,,thats how the human condition is i dont knock it i observe it ,,heres a scenerio for a thinking man i make a series 1 horncast out a fibreglass using original as a pattern i have no right to but as innocenti closed in 72 ,it dont matter ,,mould takes some making so i do a few to cover the cost ,if i sell em at 300 people say you should,nt be copying an innocenti design you dont own the copywright if i sell em for 50 quid there marvelous and i,am a top man i still had no right to do it but now its fine ,and thats way life is in full technicolour ,,there simply is nothing worse then blokes when you put a pile of em together football anything even old blokes playing dominoes ,or a darts team ,its just way were made ,
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· Reply · 46m

Nic Cicutti 😀 I'm not going to comment on your horncast pricing strategy! In terms of democracy in a club context, there is no perfect system. They all have pluses or minuses. Our system isn't perfect either. But, by and large, it works. Our club isn't the largest Lambretta club in the world and the largest scooter club in the UK by accident. Our rallies don't sell out by accident. Participation in our events isn't high by accident. They involve planning, discussion and lots of graft by committee members. Imagine what's involved for your Club putting something on. Then multiply that by 6 or 7, including at least one international rally, add in a frame certificate service, editing a 56 page colour magazine every 2 months, sending out thousands of cards every year, running a club shop with a turnover in the tens of £, travelling thousands of miles, All done by volunteers giving their free time. They have work and family commitments too. In my time on the committee I found 99% of members I spoke to were very supportive of what we did. At the end of the day, that's what people want: as effective and efficient a club as possible, taking into account the fact that all of us are volunteers.

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Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:55 am

Thanks for posting that. Anyone with the strength of mind to read to the bottom of that thread will understand how I felt about the situation. I felt - and still do feel - betrayed by one of my best former buddies iin scootering. I'm sorry if you feel that comes over too strongly.

As for Kev, yes, I'm sure he has his version of events. I accept that. Mine is different. I was on the committee for almost 7 years. I started out as Kev's fanboy. That changed over time. But as I've indicated, I have too much respect for his historic contribution to the LCGB, as well as many good things he did during my time on there, to wash dirty linen in public. For the record, there was no attempt in private or in public to force Kev's resignation. When he told us, just before the 2010 Euro to Spain, we we shocked. Not just me, everyone else on the committee. But as I say, I respect Kev's right to his interpretation of what happened. It would be helpful if you could accept that there are other versions, which don't necessarily tally with his one.

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Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:13 am

I was at the AGM when Kev resigned too, as were the core of my own club.

My understanding then, as now, is that Kev painted himself into a corner, and despite going on a whistle stop tour of the UKs larger clubs garnering support for his proposals, he couldn't win the vote on the day of the AGM.

As simple as that, it was a democratic vote and I saw how it went.
Kev didn't need to resign, he had an idea and tried his best to carry it out, in the end he misjudged the level of support -big deal.

I've seen the 'Kev Walsh argument' wheeled out left right & centre in this debacle and it's probably wise for any innocent bystanders here to note that Kev is still attending LCGB events, still being feted at LCGB dinners and still in full communication & support of the committee.
I support Kev parts fairs and chat to him just as much as I did before that decision.

This is a hobby that creates passionate people, unfortunately at times that passion boils over.

The whole 'Bloa name thing' is nothing more that Gavin taking an enormous gamble, no doubt egged on by those who find machiavellian scheming and bitching more interesting than supporting other riders and loving their Lambrettas.

Gavin could have started an alternative owners club with any other name he wanted to, but he deliberately chose BLOA, ask yourself 'why?'
He says 'because the name wasn't being used & it had a long and enviable history'.
Now that's a fair argument if you are a newbie to scootering with few friends to advise you.

But Gavin isn't -he doesn't have that defence, he has a large collection of Lambretta and lots of memorabilia, he knew full well that the BLOA name was intrinsically linked to the LCGB, they were, in effect, one & the same.
He didn't ask, consult or suggest he was thinking of this, he just logged on, filled out the application and presumably didn't care what happened.

All that is now happening is that the LCGB have a stark choice -
a) to challenge the trademark application and pursue the matter legally
b) to let Gavin have the BLOA name (and then by implication to allow anyone to start picking at any part of the LCGB and it's images/logos and component parts in future).

This wasn't and isn't a choice the LCGB made -it was forced upon them by Gavins actions, so any 'crocodile tears' from ex LCGB members weeping about the committee 'wasting thousands of pounds of members money' sounds as hollow as it gets to me - if you're THAT worried about the committee 'wasting money' I suggest you tell Gavin to scrap the application and stop forcing the committee to do this.

As for the committee gauging support of the members clubs - what's wrong with that?
If they simply followed the overwhelming decision at the 2018 AGM (which is perfectly good enough the rest of the time) then the silly accusations of the committee 'being a dictatorship' would be wheeled out yet again.
(The irony of one leaders followers accusing a democratically elected committee of dictatorship isn't lost on most by the way!)

It's all very well coming here & cutting & pasting pages from facebook (for balance/completeness perhaps?) but as Nic has said more than once -where's the transparency and open debate coming from the 'New BLOA' side?

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Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:38 am

I've said my bit, at the beginning. Still waiting for a proper reply. I'm not interested in school ground mentality. I would like to hear what memorabilia I've sold thou Nic? Anyway crack on and give me a shout when something comes forward worth listening too. Love and peace. 🌹🌺

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Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:14 pm

YAWN!

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Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:50 pm

So mr Frankland why wont you answer reasonable questions ? you havent answered why you choose mike karslakes BLOA designs in YOUR Facebook BLOA adverts in scootering publications instead of the logo ( Lambretta Lion) you are attempting to trademark .

the comments about nics friends , past lcgb history , kev walsh , persons in The LCGB Committee are not related to this debate its muck raking for muck rakings sake because its plain to see there is a hardcore of individuals that would hate the LCGB whether they changed the Committee in its entirety ,club name , rules the whole shebang.
its just making it bloody difficult for those that want answers to make a judgement about this issue.

The LCGB have presented physical evidence into the public domain , where is Facebook BLOAs ? .
its not sufficient to just say "no it isnt" every time ,can Mr Frankland produce any physical evidence to back his side of the argument up until then in my view this 50'S rally mantra is little more than a trojan horse to ramraid a longstanding clubs past and its future ability to sell its merchandise aimed at causing maximum damage and embarrassment to the organisation and its committee .
until mr frankland answers reasonable questions i for one wont support his organisation nor will i have dealings with any business or individuals advertising goods services or events on his facebook BLOA page .
my introduction shows ive got 3 lambrettas currently under restoration with my winter model around the £11k mark so far , so thats a not inconsiderable sum that wont be going certain parties way .
customer spending power is something that gets business attention look at whats happened with the Facebook scandal .
ive put my money where my mouth is i would counsel others to do the same until Mr frankland provides answers and evidence to back them up .
i'm wondering how the BSRA or scooterists would react if mr Frankland or some other individual trademarked the NRC/NSRA names an said they just wanted 80s style rallies !!
Last edited by wintermod65 on Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:03 pm

wintermod65 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:50 pm
So mr Frankland why wont you answer reasonable questions ? you havent answered why you choose mike karslakes BLOA designs in YOUR Facebook BLOA adverts in scootering publications instead of the logo you are attempting to trademark .

the comments about nics friends , past lcgb history , kev walsh , persons in The LCGB Committee are not related to this debate its muck raking for muck rakings sake because its plain to see there is a hardcore of individuals that would hate the LCGB whether they changed the Committee in its entirety ,club name , rules the whole shebang.
its just making it bloody difficult for those that want answers to make a judgement about this issue.

The LCGB have presented physical evidence into the public domain , where is Facebook BLOAs ? .
its not sufficient to just say "no it isnt" every time ,can Mr Frankland produce any physical evidence to back his side of the argument up until then in my view this 50'S rally mantra is little more than a trojan horse to ramraid a longstanding clubs past and its future ability to sell its merchandise aimed at causing maximum damage and embarrassment to the organisation and its committee .
until mr frankland answers reasonable questions i for one wont support his organisation nor will i have dealings with any business or individuals advertising goods services or events on his facebook BLOA page .
my introduction shows ive got 3 lambrettas currently under restoration with my winter model around the £11k mark so far , so thats a not inconsiderable sum that wont be going to certain parties way custmor spending power is something that businesses attention look at whats happened with the Facebook scandal .
ive put my money where my mouth is i would counsel others to do the same until Mr frankland provides answers and evidence to back them up .
i'm wondering how the BSRA or scooterists would react if mr Frankland or some other individual trademarked the NRC/NSRA names an said they just wanted 80s style rallies !!
+1.

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Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:04 pm

timexit17 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:13 am
I was at the AGM when Kev resigned too, as were the core of my own club.

My understanding then, as now, is that Kev painted himself into a corner, and despite going on a whistle stop tour of the UKs larger clubs garnering support for his proposals, he couldn't win the vote on the day of the AGM.

As simple as that, it was a democratic vote and I saw how it went.
Kev didn't need to resign, he had an idea and tried his best to carry it out, in the end he misjudged the level of support -big deal.

I've seen the 'Kev Walsh argument' wheeled out left right & centre in this debacle and it's probably wise for any innocent bystanders here to note that Kev is still attending LCGB events, still being feted at LCGB dinners and still in full communication & support of the committee.
I support Kev parts fairs and chat to him just as much as I did before that decision.

This is a hobby that creates passionate people, unfortunately at times that passion boils over.

The whole 'Bloa name thing' is nothing more that Gavin taking an enormous gamble, no doubt egged on by those who find machiavellian scheming and bitching more interesting than supporting other riders and loving their Lambrettas.

Gavin could have started an alternative owners club with any other name he wanted to, but he deliberately chose BLOA, ask yourself 'why?'
He says 'because the name wasn't being used & it had a long and enviable history'.
Now that's a fair argument if you are a newbie to scootering with few friends to advise you.

But Gavin isn't -he doesn't have that defence, he has a large collection of Lambretta and lots of memorabilia, he knew full well that the BLOA name was intrinsically linked to the LCGB, they were, in effect, one & the same.
He didn't ask, consult or suggest he was thinking of this, he just logged on, filled out the application and presumably didn't care what happened.

All that is now happening is that the LCGB have a stark choice -
a) to challenge the trademark application and pursue the matter legally
b) to let Gavin have the BLOA name (and then by implication to allow anyone to start picking at any part of the LCGB and it's images/logos and component parts in future).

This wasn't and isn't a choice the LCGB made -it was forced upon them by Gavins actions, so any 'crocodile tears' from ex LCGB members weeping about the committee 'wasting thousands of pounds of members money' sounds as hollow as it gets to me - if you're THAT worried about the committee 'wasting money' I suggest you tell Gavin to scrap the application and stop forcing the committee to do this.

As for the committee gauging support of the members clubs - what's wrong with that?
If they simply followed the overwhelming decision at the 2018 AGM (which is perfectly good enough the rest of the time) then the silly accusations of the committee 'being a dictatorship' would be wheeled out yet again.
(The irony of one leaders followers accusing a democratically elected committee of dictatorship isn't lost on most by the way!)

It's all very well coming here & cutting & pasting pages from facebook (for balance/completeness perhaps?) but as Nic has said more than once -where's the transparency and open debate coming from the 'New BLOA' side?
Nails and head spring to mind!

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Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:49 pm

Jeez.... Can somebody lock this thread? It's degenerated into a bear pit, and frankly you all seem a bit deranged.

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